windbane, I don't want to argue with you anymore over and over again about the same points. We disagree on a lot of things, but can we agree that time will tell us soon (after this holiday season) in which direction this generation of consoles is heading? Can we also agree that time will tell us also how successful the PSP really is?

If we keep this debate going on we will find us in an endless loop refraining the same points again. I am tired of it.

I didn't say that. I said they ought to be the only console on the market based on simple economics.

windbane said: 1. I never made any assumption about PS3 attach ratio. I've merely said that a lot of the demographic that Nintendo brags about, such as old people, won't be buying as many games going forward. So far, the Wii software is selling better, so maybe I'm wrong. I just think people are overreacting before the big 2nd half of the year. 2. You are ridiculous. So until a format is passing the previous format, you will give no thought to how successful it is? It took DVDs several years to overcome VHS in sales, and it was the year after the PS2 was released. The public I talk to realizes that the Wii's only innovation so far is the controller and that many of the games are also on PS2. I'm pretty sure a lot of people realize that. But hey, I don't have poll numbers so I could be wrong. 3. So what if it takes years to offset lossses if you do indeed offset losses. Time will tell. 5. You need codes for certain aspects of online play from what I've heard. Please point out some games that you don't. I'm pretty sure that to play with your friends you have to exchange codes for each game, including charged. I know Charged has online play without it but it's limited to 2 versus 2 and that's only if both online players also have friends at their side. The high level play is with 4 players, and I'm not sure 4 versus the computer will be an option. I hope it is. I've said before that I might get my Wii to play the game because I consider it the hardest Mario game ever made until someone disputes that claim. I haven't played them all. I was going to get a Wii for Manhunt 2, but that seems to have been delayed for now..*sigh* 6. The 360 and PS3 get multiplatform third party games announced all the time, such as Soul Calibur 4, The Darkness, Army of Two, and an endless number of others. Devil May Cry 3, Haze (PS3 exclusive this year, heh), Assassin's Creed, etc. Lots of them. I don't think the Wii will be the primary platform for many developers, even with the shifting of resources. I think the shifts will be games like EA's Playground aimed more for younger gamers. I expect more mini-game bananzas as well. And hey, the PS3 could use a mini-game title as well, so I'm not completely dissing the Wii... 7. The PSP hasn't trailed the Wii much in Europe the last several months. The only way you can say the PSP is a failure is if you directly compare it to the GB, GBA, DS, PS, PS2, and maybe the NES and SNES (time will tell). In fact, here is a nice chart from last week in Europe/Others: Total: Console Weekly Total 122,831 14,085,444 70,792 7,920,487 61,273 2,229,330 22,838 3,213,644 21,883 1,023,604 Total 299,617   In fact, looking back, let me revise my claim: in the last few months the PSP has been outselling the Wii. I thought the Wii was going to win this generation? I guess that means the PSP isn't successful? Except that wouldn't make sense. Sony: the PSP is doing great. 7. Ok, we disagree.

1. Well, you made the assumption that more gamers (i.e. people that buy a console to play games) will choose the PS3 later on in its life. So far the attach ratio for the Wii is higher than the one for PS3, which makes me assume that quite a lot of people (especially in japan) didn't purchase the PS3 primarly to play games on it. The lack of games is not really an excuse, qualitywise the Wii software doesn't really offer more software than the PS3. In fact, if we go by reviews the PS3 has the better games.

2. I said until ONE single movie that is released on both, DVD and Bluray, hasn't got better sales on its Bluray version, there is no reason that Bluray has a chance to become the successor of the DVD. So far Bluray movies sales are way behind DVD sales, it's still a long way to go.

"The public I talk to..." - One person's experience or opinion not neccessarly shows the general consensus.

5. To play games with your friends you need friend codes, yes. It can't be that hard to enter a 16-digit-number. You may find it tiresome to enter it, but it's done within seconds, so it's not that big of a deal as many people try to make it look like. Without friend codes you can play on Charged either 1 vs. 1 or 2 vs. 2 (2 people on each console, not 4 random people). After you choose wifi from the main menu of Charged you get to a "lobby" screen where you can immediately see how many of your friends are online right now and who of them.

The delay of Manhunt 2 is a pity, but that is what you get on a console that allows for more immersive gameplay than ever before (the Wii controls are causing the delay). Now noticing that you don't own a Wii yet, why do you complain about a console and its online system so much without not having experienced yourself. There is a reason for "Playing is believing", you know.

6. There are lots of multiplatform announcements lately, yes. But they are not really for new games, merely for games that were originally planned to be exclusive on one console. Publishers expected both HD consoles to sell much better, but now that it is obvious that they don't sell as well as they thought, they have to go multiplatform to make money off of their games. How much faith developers really put into the Wii will be seen at this year's E3, Games Convention and Tokio game show.

7. First off, the Wii is not a handheld. To determine the PSP's success you have to compare it to its competition, the DS. Next, the PSP had a price cut this year and better games in its library than last year. Yet, it doesn't sell significantly better than compared to last year. On the other hand the DS sells clearly better than last year and is widening the gap to the PSP. Here's the weekly chart:

http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=PSP&reg1=All&cons2=DS&reg2=All&cons3=PSP&reg3=All&weekly=1

As many people have noticed the PSP software is selling at low levels in america. Considering the PSP's lacking hardware sales compared to the DS and especially the low attach ratio for software, developers will cut their support for the PSP rather soon.

Nice chart, the PSP outselling the Wii. But as I've said before the Wii isn't a handheld. The same way you have to compare the PSP to its competition, the DS, you have to compare the Wii to its competition, the 360 and PS3. Pretty clear picture in your chart, the Wii is outselling both competitors combined. Same in america. Same in japan. The two HD consoles combined have trouble to grow at the same rate as the Wii. As publisher you can't ignore this fact. The best selling platform (handheld or consoles) sooner or later will always become the primary platform to develop games for.

Sony's expections for the PSP were that it will crush the DS and that UMD becomes a viable format. In both ways the PSP isn't a success, it's quite the opposite: a complete failure. Sales for the PSP will slow down, the upcoming big games won't change that.

1) Sales number show that the general public thinks the way as I have stated. If they would really think that the 360 or PS3 are of a higher value than what you get with a Wii, the price wouldn't play a role. The general gaming public thinks that the Wii has a better cost:value ratio than the 360 and PS3. See sales numbers.

The internal flash memory of the Wii allows you to store an estimated number of 40 virtual console games, this largely depends on the games you download (I have 12 VC games, they take up roughly a quarter of the flash memory). If you run out of space you buy either an SD card (1gig) for about $20 which allows you to store double as many games as on the flash memory or you simply delete the games on the Wii and download them again for free if you want to play them again.

2) One person's experience or opinion not neccessarly shows the general consensus.

It's all very well discussing unit sales, projections and price points, but in truth the seventh generation of video game consoles has already been decided.

Microsoft and Sony are massive corporations with over forty billion dollars of annal revenue and massive profits. In contrast, however, their game divisions each show significant and sustained losses - Microsoft ever since it entered the console market and Sony since the PS3 started to lose them $200 on each one sold and the PSP was a virtual flop against the DS.

This means that if it weren't for their other business, both companies would be dead and bankrupt already.

Nintendo, on the other hand, has always turned a large profit and has had their share value (and therefore how much money the market expects them to make) triple in 18 months due to the DS and Wii.

Result: If the market was fair and Sony and Microsoft couldn't afford to lose billions of dollars every year just to stay in the game market, Nintendo would be the only major competitor left.

I believe if sales continue their current trends Sony and Microsoft will give up and pull out of the console market altogether. I see no financial reason to stay in it for either company.