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Forums - General - Who's the greatest Sith Lord ever?

@Montana: Palpatine doesn't necessarily have to sense Anakin is coming if it is something he has foreseen in advance.

As for whether or not Palpatine was trying to finish Mace off, trying to delay the fight until Anakin arrived, or actually tried to look helpless when Anakin arrived, it's really something we'll never know.

Now about all of the "who was most powerful" talk...now you're getting into a very grey area. Even if we're talking about pure combat power there is no true way to measure that - in the movies or in real life. In combat or a fight, the "best" doesn't always win. And just because a person wins doesn't mean they are more powerful or skilled. Also, Montana did make a good point about age and the state of one's body in regards to combat ability.

Anyone ever watch combat sports? Boxing, kickboxing, competitive wrestling, judo, jiu-jistsu, MMA? If you notice, the combatants who could stomp pretty much any person to death are often under the guidance of an older and more experienced coach or team of coaches. The coaches experience and understanding of the game makes the younger, more powerful and able combatant a better fighter, even if in a "fight" the younger fighter would probably defeat the coach. Then when that fighter ages and loses his edge, he will train younger and more able fighters like his mentors did before him. It's not always about who can kick whoever's ass, it's often about an understanding of the art and combat itself.

Then you have to realize that combat has a lot of variables to it. Take Wanderlei Silva and Kazushi Sakuraba for example(MMA fighters). In a striking match, the advantage goes to Silva(muay thai background). In a wrestling/grappling match the advantage goes to Sakuraba(wrestling background). In their 3 MMA matches against each other, Silva won all 3. In Saku's best match against Silva(second match I believe), it was a wrestling move used by Silva(the striker) that won him the match again Sakuraba(the wrestler). In their first match, everyone was shocked when Sakuraba actually knocked Silva down with striking, though Silva eventually won. Those matches didn't play out how they "should" have played out.

If you start looking deeper into fighter's and their matches, things aren't as simple as 1+1=2. Silva twice defeated Quinton Jackson, who twice defeated Chuck Liddell, who twice defeated Randy Couture, who has also once defeated Liddell and Tito Ortiz, both of whom have defeated Silva.

Then some people just have their day against certain fighters on a certain day. As I touched on in the paragraph above, Randy Couture destroyed Chuck Liddell in their first match, but Chuck destroyed him in the next two matches against each other. Sometimes Fighter A has Fighter B's "number" and will walk all over him, even though Fighter A was unable to beat Fighter C that Fighter B easily defeated. What about Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson? Douglas did what many thought was impossible when he defeated Tyson in a very convincing fashion. But for all we know, they could have had 10 rematches and Tyson could have won every one of the rematches.

The point is this. Qui Gon was defeated by Maul, but on any other day we do not know who would win this match. Kenobi defeated Maul, but we don't know who would have won if they had squared off at another point in time. Dooku wiped the floor with Kenobi, but perhaps Qui Gon would have been a better match against Dooku. What would have happened if Dooku and Maul had squared off? Luke defeated Vader, but everyone knows he didn't have the combat training, years of experience, or familiarity with the Force that Vader did. When Kenobi and Anakin first face each other, the movies lead us to believe that Anakin is more than able to defeat Kenobi. Kenobi wins in devastating fashion after a long, brutal fight(which should favor the younger fighter), but through presence of mind and using the terrain and Anakin's ego against him, he finds a way to win.

So trying to say Bob is more powerful/skilled/intelligent than Joe because he beat Joe up is pretty silly. 99% of the time the best fighter in any combat sport loses at some point in his career. The difference is that with Jedi(or for a real world comparison, gladiators, pancrase fighters, or soldiers in a war), they may not have the opportunity to avenge a loss and learn from it, or utter the phrase "He was the better fighter today, it's back to the drawing board for me...".



"I feel like I could take on the whole Empire myself."

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TalonMan said:
MontanaHatchet said:

I hear this explanation all the time. If you watch the fight scene, they're fighting pretty equally until Mace kicks Palpatine in the face, disarming him and sending him helplessly against the wall. Besides, how was Palpatine supposed to know that Anakin was coming anyways? Hell, Count Dooku couldn't even sense the presence of Obi-Wan and Anakin nearby, who were watching him. I'd imagine that sensing the presence of another would require extreme concentration, and given how much effort he was putting forward into killing Mace, it seems unlikely he knew Anakin was coming. Besides, if he was really trying to motivate Anakin to join the Dark Side, why did he attempt to kill Mace with force lightning? Palpatine knew that Anakin needed him and that he could do whatever he wanted.

Mise: I was talking about Episode V and not before the suit. As for betraying Palpatine, it was to save his son (because he freed himself from the hold of the Dark Side) and not to overthrow him (Vader knew he was going to die).

 

 

You're kidding - how was Palpatine supposed to know that Anakin was coming?!?!? Shit, the guy plotted this entire course from the moment he entered the senate. How did he know that the Princess would be stupid enough to throw the current government into anarchy and allow him to step in and take it over? You don't think he set that whole thing up in the opening of the Sith so that Anakin could kill Dooku???? THE GUY IS PALPATINE, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!! He's pretty much a super-duty fortune teller (of course, a fortune teller of EVIL!!).

Of COURSE he knew Anakin was coming - and he knew that the final piece to complete Anakin's journey would be to help kill a fellow Jedi...

 

 

he kows things but not everything, mace would have won if he had only struck swiftly and young skywalker showing up was a fluke....and proof that he dosnt know everything, he was defeated, other wise he would have known about luke and would have hunted him down



 

Words Of Wisdom said:
mesoteto said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
mesoteto said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
mesoteto said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
The answer you seek is Darth Revan.

At least she was when Words Of Wisdom played as her.

I completely agree.


ohh i see what you did there...clever


of course you know this means war

 

 

 

A cat with a lightsaber, you leave me no choice but to use my real power.

isee your super sqrl and raise you my kryptonite Sith Head Band, funny story but i almost tossed it last night into the trash, wouldnt i have felt silly then

 

 

 

I'll see your Kryptonite Cat and raise you a Darth Dog.

...and this strange singing hamster.

 

your dog is no match for my fighting moves

 

 

and your hamster is nothing more then a snack and show

 



 

TalonMan said:
MontanaHatchet said:

I hear this explanation all the time. If you watch the fight scene, they're fighting pretty equally until Mace kicks Palpatine in the face, disarming him and sending him helplessly against the wall. Besides, how was Palpatine supposed to know that Anakin was coming anyways? Hell, Count Dooku couldn't even sense the presence of Obi-Wan and Anakin nearby, who were watching him. I'd imagine that sensing the presence of another would require extreme concentration, and given how much effort he was putting forward into killing Mace, it seems unlikely he knew Anakin was coming. Besides, if he was really trying to motivate Anakin to join the Dark Side, why did he attempt to kill Mace with force lightning? Palpatine knew that Anakin needed him and that he could do whatever he wanted.

Mise: I was talking about Episode V and not before the suit. As for betraying Palpatine, it was to save his son (because he freed himself from the hold of the Dark Side) and not to overthrow him (Vader knew he was going to die).

 

 

You're kidding - how was Palpatine supposed to know that Anakin was coming?!?!? Shit, the guy plotted this entire course from the moment he entered the senate. How did he know that the Princess would be stupid enough to throw the current government into anarchy and allow him to step in and take it over? You don't think he set that whole thing up in the opening of the Sith so that Anakin could kill Dooku???? THE GUY IS PALPATINE, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!! He's pretty much a super-duty fortune teller (of course, a fortune teller of EVIL!!).

Of COURSE he knew Anakin was coming - and he knew that the final piece to complete Anakin's journey would be to help kill a fellow Jedi...

 

How would he have plotted everything from the moment he entered the senate? Hell, if it were up to him, Anakin would have been killed by Dooku, or...well, I don't know...THE SEPARATIST ARMY?!! Obviously he planned some things because he was a master of manipulation, but there were so many things weighing against Anakin that easily could have killed him. Hell, Palpatine could have told his apprentices and the Separatists to take special care to not kill Anakin, but they came close to doing it several times.

Really, the actions seem a bit contradicting in the film, so I think he works on impulse a good bit of the time. If he really foresaw everything, why would he have tried to kill Amidala who later gave him dictatorial powers?

Quigontcb: Holy shit, I'll try to read that but I'm still frightened.

 



 

 

Darth Traya, no contest.



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ZenfoldorVGI said:
The answer you seek is Darth Revan.

 

Seconded.



ZenfoldorVGI said:
The answer you seek is Darth Revan.


Seconded.



Darth Bane was the toughest. His armor deflected freaking lightsabres.

He was only defeated when his own badass powers were turned against him.

I'd also say Vader wanted to overthrow Palpatine.

It's what every younger Sith wants to do.  Take on an aprentice, kill the master and become the master.



The Ghost of RubangB said:
Kasz216 said:
TalonMan said:
I didn't LOVE episodes 1-3, but the 3rd one of ALL of those was perfect. Say what you will about Anakin, but seeing him walk into that temple hell-bent on slicing up some kids... ...well, you just don't get more evil than that.

Which leads me to my nomination: MontanaHatchet

Darth and his 'saber have NOTHIN' on Montana and a ban button... ;)

 

I found that scene the funniest scene i've ever seen in a movie in my life...

and I've seen Jason X.

Close, but there's no way it was as funny as the part where that guy's impaled on a giant screw, and somebody asks where he is on the radio, and they say "He's screwed."

My vote's Darth Jason X.

 

 

But seriously, I can only name the ones from the movies, and don't recognize anybody else. I'd go with Darth Saruman for surviving Yoda at the end of episode 2.

 

That really should be a comic book Crossover.  Star Wars VS Jason X.  Have Darth Vader fighting Jason X.  Would be classic.

 



Visually, Darth Maul has to be my favorite. Straight duel lightsaber is pro.