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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Kojima doing Half-life and Valve doing Metal Sear Solid?

DTG on 27 June 2008
ssj12 said:
DTG said:
ssj12 said:
Squilliam said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Squilliam said:

I think Kojima on the other hand would add a lot more subtlety to the Half-life game.

 

I know it's completely out of context, but this sentence fails on many many levels.

 

Half-life = straight forward = simplified = Wii-ified

MGS4 = ?

 

Half-Life's story simple? The story now isnt easy to follow due to all the missing holes in the plot and all the twists throughout. Half-Life's might not be as hard to understand as MGS's but following and understanding wtf is going on and all the events that happened between Pre-HL1 and Pre-HL2 with bring in elements of where Portal fits into the timeline is not that simple. Honestly I think one Kojima style cutscene would be nice to see.

 

The problem isn't the simplicity of the narrative but the simplicity of it's themes; namely none. While MGS deals with several very important subject matter.

 

Half-Life has a simple theme? Do you have any idea wtf the story is?

 

What metaphysical issues does HL2 wrestle with exactly, in your mind?



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Squilliam on 27 June 2008
ssj12 said:
Squilliam said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
Squilliam said:

I think Kojima on the other hand would add a lot more subtlety to the Half-life game.

 

I know it's completely out of context, but this sentence fails on many many levels.

 

 Half-life = straight forward = simplified = Wii-ified

MGS4 = ?

 

Half-Life's story simple? The story now isnt easy to follow due to all the missing holes in the plot and all the twists throughout. Half-Life's might not be as hard to understand as MGS's but following and understanding wtf is going on and all the events that happened between Pre-HL1 and Pre-HL2 with bring in elements of where Portal fits into the timeline is not that simple. Honestly I think one Kojima style cutscene would be nice to see.

I wasn't talking about the story, I was referring to the fact that its probably about the easiest shooter I can think of to pick up and play. It involves killing guys with masks so that some people don't feel the psycological problem with killing other humans and it has an extremely high production value so its very consistant thruout.

 



Tease.

jalsonmi on 27 June 2008
Riachu said:
shio said:
DTG said:
ArtznCraphs said:
DTG said:
Half Life would actually have a fully fleshed out, socially and politically relevant storyline while MGS would turn into just another VG narrative aimed to satisfy the entertainment hungry masses.
And Metal Gear would actually have naturalistic voice acting, up to date game storytelling methods, characters that resemble actual human beings with personalities that make the storyline relevant instead of exposition spewing automatons.

 

 

The voice acting in MGS is industry standard. As far as up to date storytellig methods, MGS4 uses cinematics just as movies have been for decades. VIDEO games can and dare I say should be interactive movies because you cannot impart such deep dialogue as the one with GW in MGS2 through in game storytelling alone. There is no golden rule as to how to tell video game stories, and considering the fact that no developer so far has been successful in giving as in depth exposition and detail as MGS games through minute in game scenes I'd say cutscenes are the way to go in creating storylines on par with the depth of movies and literature. As far as character personalities, I'd rather have a storyline that teaches me something about myself and the world around me rather than one that is entertaining with merely interesting characters filling the vessel of a "fun" oriented game without meaning or substance.

 

The "Video" part of videogames means that the games are played on a Electronical Screen (TV/Monitor). It has nothing to do with Movies.

It Planescape: Torment was able to provide a much deeper and complex (and less convoluted) story without the use of cutscenes-only. Deus Ex also provided a deeper story than MGS and almost as cinematic, yet there was still interactivity in every dialogue scene.

 

What exactly is the difference between deep, complex stories and convoluted stories?

 

 

Sigh. This right here is the prefect example of why people think MGS is great storytelling. The Great Gatsby is a deep, complex story. IT's not even slightly convoluted. Subtelty is also another thing that people often put in the came category as "large story." Gravity's Rainbow is a deep, complex story that never beats you over the head with the plot in the way MGS does. These things are possible.

MGS is a great series with a lot of good things going for it. Plotting and dialogue are not among those things.



My consoles and the fates they suffered:

Atari 7800 (Sold), Intellivision (Thrown out), Gameboy (Lost), Super Nintendo (Stolen), Super Nintendo (2nd copy) (Thrown out by mother), Nintendo 64 (Still own), Super Nintendo (3rd copy) (Still own), Wii (Sold)

A more detailed history appears on my profile.

jalsonmi on 27 June 2008
Spectrumglr said:

@ DTG:

"Kojima explores free will, determinism, manipulation, identity, control etc etc."

i can't take anything too seriously when in a game the main character is Solid Snake, its mortal enemy is Liquid Snake (where is Gas Snake?) and other guys are named like Revolver Ocelot (!), Sniper Wolf(!!), Vulcan Raven (!!!), Psycho Mantis (!!!!) or Decoy Octopus (world has just run out of exclamation marks)...with Cheesy Pig and Banana Joe the party would be complete. Go kojima: i want Cheesy Pig and Banana Joe in MGS5

 

Ssh! You're giving away valuable MGS5 secrets!

Which of course begs the question: why is the third clone code named Solidus? What does that even mean? And the original code named Naked? What?



My consoles and the fates they suffered:

Atari 7800 (Sold), Intellivision (Thrown out), Gameboy (Lost), Super Nintendo (Stolen), Super Nintendo (2nd copy) (Thrown out by mother), Nintendo 64 (Still own), Super Nintendo (3rd copy) (Still own), Wii (Sold)

A more detailed history appears on my profile.

Riachu on 27 June 2008
jalsonmi said:
Riachu said:
shio said:
DTG said:
ArtznCraphs said:
DTG said:
Half Life would actually have a fully fleshed out, socially and politically relevant storyline while MGS would turn into just another VG narrative aimed to satisfy the entertainment hungry masses.
And Metal Gear would actually have naturalistic voice acting, up to date game storytelling methods, characters that resemble actual human beings with personalities that make the storyline relevant instead of exposition spewing automatons.

 

 

The voice acting in MGS is industry standard. As far as up to date storytellig methods, MGS4 uses cinematics just as movies have been for decades. VIDEO games can and dare I say should be interactive movies because you cannot impart such deep dialogue as the one with GW in MGS2 through in game storytelling alone. There is no golden rule as to how to tell video game stories, and considering the fact that no developer so far has been successful in giving as in depth exposition and detail as MGS games through minute in game scenes I'd say cutscenes are the way to go in creating storylines on par with the depth of movies and literature. As far as character personalities, I'd rather have a storyline that teaches me something about myself and the world around me rather than one that is entertaining with merely interesting characters filling the vessel of a "fun" oriented game without meaning or substance.

 

The "Video" part of videogames means that the games are played on a Electronical Screen (TV/Monitor). It has nothing to do with Movies.

It Planescape: Torment was able to provide a much deeper and complex (and less convoluted) story without the use of cutscenes-only. Deus Ex also provided a deeper story than MGS and almost as cinematic, yet there was still interactivity in every dialogue scene.

 

What exactly is the difference between deep, complex stories and convoluted stories?

 

 

Sigh. This right here is the prefect example of why people think MGS is great storytelling. The Great Gatsby is a deep, complex story. IT's not even slightly convoluted. Subtelty is also another thing that people often put in the came category as "large story." Gravity's Rainbow is a deep, complex story that never beats you over the head with the plot in the way MGS does. These things are possible.

MGS is a great series with a lot of good things going for it. Plotting and dialogue are not among those things.

I sorry to break it to you but the plot is what seperates Metal Gear Solid from other games in the genre

 



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

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wfz on 27 June 2008
jalsonmi said:
Spectrumglr said:

@ DTG:

"Kojima explores free will, determinism, manipulation, identity, control etc etc."

i can't take anything too seriously when in a game the main character is Solid Snake, its mortal enemy is Liquid Snake (where is Gas Snake?) and other guys are named like Revolver Ocelot (!), Sniper Wolf(!!), Vulcan Raven (!!!), Psycho Mantis (!!!!) or Decoy Octopus (world has just run out of exclamation marks)...with Cheesy Pig and Banana Joe the party would be complete. Go kojima: i want Cheesy Pig and Banana Joe in MGS5

 

Ssh! You're giving away valuable MGS5 secrets!

Which of course begs the question: why is the third clone code named Solidus? What does that even mean? And the original code named Naked? What?

Both of you guys just made me do the *face palm*. Trying to sound cool while making fools of yourselves from your own lack of knowledge. :P

Solidus is a more formal name for "gas". So yes, there is a gaseus snake.

 



Spectrumglr on 28 June 2008
wfz said:
jalsonmi said:
Spectrumglr said:

@ DTG:

"Kojima explores free will, determinism, manipulation, identity, control etc etc."

i can't take anything too seriously when in a game the main character is Solid Snake, its mortal enemy is Liquid Snake (where is Gas Snake?) and other guys are named like Revolver Ocelot (!), Sniper Wolf(!!), Vulcan Raven (!!!), Psycho Mantis (!!!!) or Decoy Octopus (world has just run out of exclamation marks)...with Cheesy Pig and Banana Joe the party would be complete. Go kojima: i want Cheesy Pig and Banana Joe in MGS5

 

Ssh! You're giving away valuable MGS5 secrets!

Which of course begs the question: why is the third clone code named Solidus? What does that even mean? And the original code named Naked? What?

Both of you guys just made me do the *face palm*. Trying to sound cool while making fools of yourselves from your own lack of knowledge. :P

Solidus is a more formal name for "gas". So yes, there is a gaseus snake.

 

 

err...English might not be my natural language but i think that you you should spend a little more time on books...or at least you should try to use google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidus_(chemistry)

and yes...there's still room for gas snake (as well as for liquidus as you should have learnt).



2008 year end sales (made in January 2008):

44.2 M 27.1 M 20.8 M

Rath on 28 June 2008
DTG said:

 

What metaphysical issues does HL2 wrestle with exactly, in your mind?

Oh right, so because it doesn't wrestle with metaphysical issues its poor story telling. I'm sorry Austen and Tolkien, because your work isn't metaphysical its actually not good story telling.

 



Cracksmoke on 28 June 2008

I hear that this game will be on xbox360/PC



makingmusic476 on 28 June 2008

Why are there so many Kojima haters on this forum. :(

I can understanding just not liking the MGS series, but it seems like a lot of you have a vendetta against the series, feeling obliged to mock it whenever mentioned.