Half Life would actually have a fully fleshed out, socially and politically relevant storyline while MGS would turn into just another VG narrative aimed to satisfy the entertainment hungry masses.

Half life is just fine...with KO it would just Ruin it.


DONT MESS WITH PC GAMES!!!!

The voice acting in MGS is industry standard. As far as up to date storytellig methods, MGS4 uses cinematics just as movies have been for decades. VIDEO games can and dare I say should be interactive movies because you cannot impart such deep dialogue as the one with GW in MGS2 through in game storytelling alone. There is no golden rule as to how to tell video game stories, and considering the fact that no developer so far has been successful in giving as in depth exposition and detail as MGS games through minute in game scenes I'd say cutscenes are the way to go in creating storylines on par with the depth of movies and literature. As far as character personalities, I'd rather have a storyline that teaches me something about myself and the world around me rather than one that is entertaining with merely interesting characters filling the vessel of a "fun" oriented game without meaning or substance.

How many threads do we need about this? I swear, every thread that even mentions MGS4 turns into a debate about whether or not it's good story telling. I'll tell you guys what though, 90% of people don't really give a shit, it's a damn good game.

Disclaimer: The percentage of people who actually don't give a shit may be made up, and may not be representative of the actual statistic.

BTW, Garcian Smith, that was hilarious.

You're my favorite new poster. All you do is go around and talk about how MGS is amazing and, more important to you, that it is art. And if someone disagrees, it's because their superficial, infantile brains are too feeble to understand the subtle underpinnings of thematic exposition.

The "Video" part of videogames means that the games are played on a Electronical Screen (TV/Monitor). It has nothing to do with Movies.

It Planescape: Torment was able to provide a much deeper and complex (and less convoluted) story without the use of cutscenes-only. Deus Ex also provided a deeper story than MGS and almost as cinematic, yet there was still interactivity in every dialogue scene.

Half life made by kojima? please no: don't wanna see it turned in an interactive (and boring) movie. I still value gameplay over graphics.

MGS made by Valve? could be interesting...but still Half-life would be better.

Really? Name dialogue from either of those games that goes as in depth into it's thematic issues as this single passage in MGS2 does. Kojima explores free will, determinism, manipulation, identity, control and many other issues in this single 20 minute passage.

Raiden, are you receiving? We're still here.

Raiden: How's that possible!? The GW was destroyed!

Colonel: Only the AI.

Raiden: Who are you?

Colonel: To begin with -- we're not what you'd call -- human. Over the past two hundred years -- A kind of consciousness formed layer by layer in the crucible of the White House. It's not unlike the way life started in the oceans four billion years ago. The White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution -- We are formless. We are the very discipline and morality that Americans invoke so often. How can anyone hope to eliminate us? As long as this nation exists, so will we.

Raiden: Cut the crap! If you're immortal, why would you take away individual freedoms and censor the Net?

Rose: Jack, don't be silly.

Colonel: Don't you know that our plans have your interests -- not ours -- in mind?

Raiden: What?

Rose: Jack, listen carefully like a good boy!

Colonel: The mapping of the human genome was completed early this century. As a result, the evolutionary log of the human race lay open to us.

Rose: We started with genetic engineering, and in the end, we succeeded in digitizing life itself.

Colonel: But there are things not covered by genetic information.

Raiden: What do you mean?

Colonel: Human memories, ideas. Culture. History.

Rose: Genes don't contain any record of human history.

Colonel: Is it something that should not be passed on? Should that information be left at the mercy of nature?

Rose: We've always kept records of our lives. Through words, pictures, symbols... from tablets to books...

Colonel: But not all the information was inherited by later generations. A small percentage of the whole was selected and processed, then passed on. Not unlike genes, really.

Rose: That's what history is, Jack.

Colonel: But in the current, digitized world, trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness. Never fading, always accessible.

Rose: Rumors about petty issues, misinterpretations, slander...

Colonel: All this junk data preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate.

Rose: It will only slow down social progress, reduce the rate of evolution.

Colonel: Raiden, you seem to think that our plan is one of censorship.

Raiden: Are you telling me it's not!?

Rose: You're being silly! What we propose to do is not to control content, but to create context.

Raiden: Create context?

Colonel: The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards development of convenient half-truths. Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you.

Rose: Billions spent on new weapons in order to humanely murder other humans.

Colonel: Rights of criminals are given more respect than the privacy of their victims.

Rose: Although there are people suffering in poverty, huge donations are made to protect endangered species. Everyone grows up being told the same thing.

Colonel: Be nice to other people.

Rose: But beat out the competition!

Colonel: "You're special." "Believe in yourself and you will succeed."

Rose: But it's obvious from the start that only a few can succeed...

Colonel: You exercise your right to "freedom" and this is the result. All rhetoric to avoid conflict and protect each other from hurt. The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems.

Rose: Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum. They stay inside their little ponds, leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large.

Colonel: The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh. No one is invalidated, but nobody is right.

Rose: Not even natural selection can take place here. The world is being engulfed in "truth."

Colonel: And this is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

Rose: We're trying to stop that from happening.

Colonel: It's our responsibility as rulers. Just as in genetics, unnecessary information and memory must be filtered out to stimulate the evolution of the species.

Raiden: And you think you're qualified to decide what's necessary and not!?

Colonel: Absolutely. Who else could wade through the sea of garbage you people produce, retrieve valuable truths and even interpret their meaning for later generations?

Rose: That's what it means to create context.

Raiden: I'll decide for myself what to believe and what to pass on!

Colonel: But is that even your own idea?

Rose: Or something Snake told you?

Raiden: ...

Colonel: That's the proof of your incompetence, right there. You lack the qualifications to exercise free will.

Raiden: That's not true! I have the right--

Rose: Does something like a "self" exist inside of you?

Colonel: That which you call "self" serves as nothing more than a mask to cover your own being.

Rose: In this era of ready-made 'truths', "self" is just something used to preserve those positive emotions that you occasionally feel...

Colonel: ...Another possibility is that "self" is a concept you conveniently borrowed under the logic that it would endow you with some sense of strength...

Raiden: That's crap!

Colonel: Is it? Would you prefer that someone else tell you? Alright then. Explain it to him.

Rose: Jack, you're simply the best! And you got there all by yourself!

Raiden: Rrr...

Colonel: Oh, what happened? Do you feel lost? Why not try a bit of soul-searching?

Rose: Don't think you'll find anything, though...

Colonel: Ironic that although "self" is something that you yourself fashioned, every time something goes wrong, you turn around and place the blame on something else.

Rose: It's not my fault. It's not your fault.

Colonel: In denial, you simply resort to looking for another, more convenient "truth" in order to make yourself feel better.

Rose: ...leaving behind in an instant the so-called "truth" you once embraced.

Colonel: Should someone like that be able to decide what is "truth"?

Rose: Should someone like you even have the right to decide?

Colonel: You've done nothing but abuse your freedom.

Rose: You don't deserve to be free!

Colonel: We're not the ones smothering the world. You are.

Rose: The individual is supposed to be weak. But far from powerless -- a single person has the potential to ruin the world.

Colonel: And the age of digitized communication has given even more power to the individual. Too much power for an immature species.

Rose: Building a legacy involves figuring out what is wanted, and what needs to be done for that goal. All this, you used to struggle with. Now, we think for you.

Colonel: We are your guardians after all.

Raiden: You want to control human thought? Human behavior?

Colonel: Of course. Anything can be quantified nowadays. That's what this exercise was designed to prove.

Rose: You fell in love with me just as you were meant to, after all. Isn't that right, Jack?

Colonel: Ocelot was not told the whole truth, to say the least.

Rose: We rule an entire nation -- of what interest would a single soldier, no matter how able, be to us?

Colonel: The S3 Plan does not stand for Solid Snake Simulation. What it does stand for is Selection for Societal Sanity... The S3 is a system for controlling human will and consciousness. S3 is not you, a soldier trained in the image of Solid Snake. It is -- a method, a protocol, that created a circumstance that made you what you are.

Rose: So you see, we're the S3. Not you.

Colonel: What you experienced was the final test of its effectiveness.

Raiden: That's crazy!

Colonel: You heard what President Johnson said. (President's Voice) "The Arsenal's 'GW' system is the key to their supremacy." (Normal Voice) The objective of this exercise was to establish such a method. We used Shadow Moses as a paradigm for the exercise.

Rose: I wonder if you would have preferred a fantasy setting?

Colonel: We chose that backdrop because of its extreme circumstances. It was an optimal test for S3's crisis management capacity. If the model could trigger, control and solve this, it would be ready for any contingency. And now, we have our proof. Raiden, there are also reasons behind your selection. Solidus raised plenty of other child soldiers. Do you know why we chose you over them?

Raiden: ?

Colonel: It was because you were the only one who refused to acknowledge the past. All the others remember what they were, and pay for it daily.

Rose: But you turn your back on everything you don't like. You do whatever you like, see only the things you like, and for yourself alone.

Colonel: Yes -- Rose can attest to that.

Rose: You refused to see me for what I was. I lied to you, but I wanted to be caught. You pretended to be understanding, to be a gentleman... You never made a conscious attempt to reach out to me... The only time you did was when I gave you no choice but to do so...

Raiden: I was just trying not to...

Rose: What? "Trying not to hurt me?" Dear, the one you were trying not to hurt was yourself! Avoiding the truth under the guise of "kindness" is all that you did! It occurred to you to do nothing but look out for yourself. Even if you claim that it was for my sake, that feeling was nowhere to be seen. In the end, everything was for your sake... I was never part of the picture.

Colonel: Ha, ha, ha...exactly right. So you see, you're a perfect representative of the masses we need to protect. This is why we chose you. You accepted the fiction we've provided, obeyed our orders and did everything you were told to. The exercise is a resounding success. (Emma's Voice) "Didn't I tell you that GW was still incomplete? But not anymore, thanks to you." (Normal Voice) Your persona, experiences, triumphs and defeats are nothing but byproducts. The real objective was ensuring that we could generate and manipulate them. It's taken a lot of time and money, but it was well worth it considering the results. I think that's enough talk. It's time for the final exercise. Raiden, take Solidus down.

Raiden: Think again! I'm through doing what I'm told!

Colonel: Oh really? Aren't you forgetting something? (Olga's Voice) "If you die, my child dies." (Normal Voice) The termination of vital signals from your nanomachines means the death of Olga's child. Not to mention the death of Rose. She's wired the same way.

Raiden: Rose -- does she actually exist?

Colonel: (Rose's Voice) "Of course I do, Jack! You have to beLIEve me!"

Raiden: Damn!

Colonel: It will be a fight to the death.

Rose: Solidus, at least, wants you dead.

Colonel: We will collect the necessary data from this last fight, then we'll consider the exercise closed. So, Jack the Ripper! Will it be Solidus, the Patriots' creation? Or you -- Solidus' creation? Our beloved monsters -- enjoy yourselves.

What exactly is the difference between deep, complex stories and convoluted stories?