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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why 3rd Parties Can’t (And Probably Won’t) Succeed on the Wii

wenlan said:
@trestres,
I think we agree with each other at some levels: current Wii owners in Japan don't buy "niche third party games".

Why? Because they are loyal Nintendo fans (who only purchase 1st party games) or they are first-time console buyers?

Or, most PS2 owners in Japan haven't (or don't want to) upgraded to the current gen console yet (too busy playing MHP2G). Anyway, Nintendo need to try harder to attract more hard core gamers (who will purchase "Harukanaru Toki no Naka de 4" type of games) to get a Wii before they choose PS3 (or Xbox360). If it doesn't happen, the third party Wii games will not sell well (in Japan).

 

 

LOL!!! is that because hardcore gamers are the bread and butter of this industry? Judging from the stupid amount of money nintendo is making and their sales lead i would say i think not. To tell the truth if i was nintendo i would not want to appeal to the hardcorz at all, simply because if a game is not epic or HD they are not interested, like Malestrom said the hardcorz like to put themselves up on a pedestal, like they have been driving the industry for years but that is garbage, if gaming only appealed to hardcorz, it would be dead, because theses buyers of 50+ games are but a drop in the vast ocean of consumers who actually buy games as well, the playstation and other consoles of legendery consoles were definatly not driven by the hardcorz, no matter what they think.



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trestres said:

NMH sold bad as no one knows about this game other than hardcore gamers that visit gaming pages, Victorious Boxers Revolution got 0 advertisment as well and the game was a terrible flop, The Dog Island is flopping terribly because it's impossible for a common person to know about its existance, Tenchu 4 I'm afraid will follow the same flopping trend outside Japan and all thanks to Ubisoft.

So in conclusion, 3rd party devs that try to copy Nintendo's every steps will fail miserably on the Wii.
3rd party devs that don't take the hardcore crowd seriously will fail miserably on the Wii.
3rd party devs that thinks that a quick port will be bought will fail miserably on the Wii.
3rd party devs that don't innovate will fail miserably on the Wii.
3rd party devs that make cheap assed games will fail miserably on the Wii
3rd party devs that ignore the whole market the Wii has (Casual, hardcore, non-gamers) will fail miserably on the Wii.

This is a great post.

Question though, what is The Dog Island about? Looking at the game, it doesn't seem to be much more than the Petz games that have come out. Victorious Boxers Revolution looks interesting, but I've never seen the game anywhere. I'll have to check amazon.com to see if they have the game. Might pick it up.



Thanks stever for replying to me. I even thought you're one of them, you know what I mean. Anyway, about Boom Blox, for a puzzle game it actually sell and EA did say it met its expectations I mean who you believe, EA themselves or the so called analysts? I believe more on EA and for a puzzle game it actually sells well.

The root of this 3rd party thing was Boom Blox, there are three things that should consider here:

1) Its a new IP its not a established franchise yet. Just look at Mysims sales the game was slow before it became a million seller.

2) Its a puzzle game we knew that puzzle games dont even sale 60,000 in its lifetime what more only in course of a month? And analysts wants this game to sell 250,000 in one month?!!

3) Boom Blox have too much contender including Wii Fit which have supply problems right now, we knew even with heavy advertising with Wii Fit and its a puzzle game Boom Blox cant compete.

What EA needs to do now was make this game have legs just like Big Brain Academy. Niche title, a million seller. I think this is what EA wants to do now.



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg

yushire said:
Thanks stever for replying to me. I even thought you're one of them, you know what I mean. Anyway, about Boom Blox, for a puzzle game it actually sell and EA did say it met its expectations I mean who you believe, EA themselves or the so called analysts? I believe more on EA and for a puzzle game it actually sells well.

The root of this 3rd party thing was Boom Blox, there are three things that should consider here:

1) Its a new IP its not a established franchise yet. Just look at Mysims sales the game was slow before it became a million seller.

2) Its a puzzle game we knew that puzzle games dont even sale 60,000 in its lifetime what more only in course of a month? And analysts wants this game to sell 250,000 in one month?!!

3) Boom Blox have too much contender including Wii Fit which have supply problems right now, we knew even with heavy advertising with Wii Fit and its a puzzle game Boom Blox cant compete.

What EA needs to do now was make this game have legs just like Big Brain Academy. Niche title, a million seller. I think this is what EA wants to do now.

Oh, I'm not saying that Boom Blox didn't do decently. If it met EA's expectations, then that's really all that matters. The thing is that is really could have done a lot better if people knew about it.

You bring up some good points though. I would say MySims was an established name though, because of the "Sim" name. Other Sim games haven't been very successful on consoles though, but I think that's because they were mediocre at best. MySims seems to be the revival of the game that some have been looking for. It was a slow and steady seller, and I expect Boom Blox to be similar, hitting a million eventually (probably around this holiday season).

Boom Blox did have a lot of competition that month. I do expect the game to have legs, so it'll be interesting to see where the game ends up.

 



Stever89 said:

Oh, I'm not saying that Boom Blox didn't do decently. If it met EA's expectations, then that's really all that matters. The thing is that is really could have done a lot better if people knew about it.

You bring up some good points though. I would say MySims was an established name though, because of the "Sim" name. Other Sim games haven't been very successful on consoles though, but I think that's because they were mediocre at best. MySims seems to be the revival of the game that some have been looking for. It was a slow and steady seller, and I expect Boom Blox to be similar, hitting a million eventually (probably around this holiday season).

Boom Blox did have a lot of competition that month. I do expect the game to have legs, so it'll be interesting to see where the game ends up.

 

Just to correct you, Mysims wasnt in the Sims series, though they have those gibberish talk. They have different developers than the Sims game and the gameplay was different than the Sims. Mysims integrated the animal crossing features and gameplay and put it on Mysims. Thats why the captured audience was different too its teenagers and kids.

 

 



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg

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sc94597 said:
Soriku said:
sc94597 said:
Some people need to actually read the op before attacking him. He did not in anyway say that 3rd party games on the wii will not sell. He is just listing reasons why they won't sell, and what 3rd parties must do to make them sell. So read the Op before you start criticizing a post.


This. Dear God people. Read the OP. I don't care if it's long, just read it so you don't look foolish making your posts.

I read the op, and I saw reasons why 3rd parties could never suceed at the level nintendo does, unless they do those things. It doesn't have anything in common with the other threads that just blantantly state 3rd parties aren't supporting the wii. So please explain to me how I'm wrong.

 

I thought he was agreeing with you.

 



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tuoyo said:
sc94597 said:
Soriku said:
sc94597 said:
Some people need to actually read the op before attacking him. He did not in anyway say that 3rd party games on the wii will not sell. He is just listing reasons why they won't sell, and what 3rd parties must do to make them sell. So read the Op before you start criticizing a post.


This. Dear God people. Read the OP. I don't care if it's long, just read it so you don't look foolish making your posts.

I read the op, and I saw reasons why 3rd parties could never suceed at the level nintendo does, unless they do those things. It doesn't have anything in common with the other threads that just blantantly state 3rd parties aren't supporting the wii. So please explain to me how I'm wrong.

 

I thought he was agreeing with you.

 

Oh lol I missed the "people". Sorry Soriku.

 



Oyvoyvoyv said:
BengaBenga said:
Oyvoyvoyv said:
BengaBenga said:

 

Let's say Zack & Wiki is the ultimate example of failing 3rd party sales.
It sold 380.000 units according to VGC.
Here are some PS3 games that sold less than Z&W. According to your analysis the Wii might be a failure, but then you must aldo consider the PS3 a failure for 3rd parties.

 

 But people aren't saying that Zack and Wiki is the ultimate example. People are saying that even with double the userbase, Wii has still sold less 3rd party software than Ps3 in 2008.

It isn't like 3rd parties are taking a bigger share against Nintendo, as a matter of fact, this year it is lower than it was this time last year. Their sales are increasing, but not majorly.

The Wii isn't seeing what the DS saw. 3rd parties aren't taking a bigger and bigger share of the sales.

Sure, those games you listed sold less than Zack & Wiki, but 35 games also sold more. Many of the games you listed are also multiplats, so selling that much on Ps3 isn't horrid, as X360 stands for as much or more sales, meaning that it sold around or more than 100% more.

 

PS: Don't criticize the OP for making this thread. He looks at it in a different way than earlier posted. If you have new facts or beliefs that are important, making a new thread should be accepted.

Either way, even if it was stupid to make it, he has heard it now, no need to rub it in.

Duh, there was a game called GTAIV remember?

BTW there are just as many 3rd party million sellers on Wii as on PS3. Sure there's a different in userbase, but Wii comes with a free game and Nintendo has so far made the best games for the system. And 3rd party publishers don't care about attach rates, they care about sales.

Your statement that Wii isn't seeing DS support is very premature. 3rd party announcement are increasing in number as in quality. Fatal Frame, Tenchu, Fragile, Oboro Muramasa etc etc.

I'm not saying that this thread is stupid or even that the opinion is stupid. The reason I posted the PS3 list is to show that it wouldn't hurt to tell the whole story, instead of always cherry picking the Wii's 3rd party software sales.

 

 

 First, sorry, I wrote a bit bad. The PS has nothing to do with you.

Secondly, even though GTA IV was launched, Ps3 is likely to always have at least 1 huge 3rd party seller each half year. Maybe not as big as GTA, but still.

January through May 2008, Wii sold 17.6M 3rd party software, Ps3 sold 18.5M software. That's higher sales wise, not only AR wise. My point including the userbase difference was to mark the problem, but really, there was no need for me to add it.

Sure, but you can't just leave Nintendo's games out of the equation. They brought Mario Kart, Brawl and WiiFit in the first half of 2008. Surely that will cause less sales for others. If you want to compete you have to deliver the same quality. Still I don't think 18 million is bad. But I'm sure that the second half of 2008 Wii will have highest 3rd party sales of all platforms. Guitar Hero, RockBand, Madden (improved), Pro Evo, Symphonia 2 and a whole bunch of other games will release. Most of those games are very suited towards the audience and are quality as well.

You may say that GTA IV launched, but M&S, which isn't really a 3rd party game (still counted though) has sold more than the Ps3 version (by far through May only).

The fact that you are seeing higher quality titles won't neccessarily mean more sales, and even the quality of those titles, are to be frank, not that high.

You can list that Ps3 has 70 titles that has sold less than 400K. That's cherry picking as hell. Many of those titles are low quality titles, that are also multiplat. Yeah, I know that's cherry picking. That's why I added that list. Just to be clear here, this is not the total list, it goes far beyond 100. Again I justed wanted to show that 3rd parties have lots of trouble on all platforms this gen. Stranglehold almost killed the publisher, Lair certainly was a big loss for Factor 5 etc. If you take into acount that PS3 titles (especially the exclusives) are very expensive than you don't need to be an expert to see lots of financial failures there. So not only on Wii.

If you want an ultimate proof of a hardcore failure on Wii, try this: http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=7569

Sorry, MLB Power Pro's??? I know it got great reviews, but in what Universe did you expect this to sell very well?

There are over 200 games on Wii that sold less than 400K. There are 50 that sold more. On Ps3 the situation is drastically better, therefore, listing what you did just seems odd to me. Eh, no the situation is not better on PS3. There are 38 games over 400.000 on PS3, 50 on Wii. There are 25 million sellers on Wii, 15 on PS3, there are 14  2 million + sellers on Wii, 5 on PS3. And again, development costs are much lower on Wii. So you're absolutely wrong here. Wii is a big software seller, 3rd parties just don't really know jhow to do it.

For the fact, 40 have sold more and 120 less on Ps3, not as much better as I thought, but still makes your list a bit odd.

Ok, my list was to show the bizarre habit to always pick on Wii's 3rd party situation while the others are equally bad. Nothing else.

Anyway, sorry for a bit bad writing making it appear I was criticicing you.

 

 



Anyway, we will see how third parties will become on the Wii after the sales of TOS 2, this is what 3rd party company should do, a established IP, good advertising, great title for a good franchise and Namco Bandai arent left behind by Ninty. Namco Bandai even secure the casual market with games like We Ski and Family Trainer so far...



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg

Stever89 said:
trestres said:

NMH sold bad as no one knows about this game other than hardcore gamers that visit gaming pages, Victorious Boxers Revolution got 0 advertisment as well and the game was a terrible flop, The Dog Island is flopping terribly because it's impossible for a common person to know about its existance, Tenchu 4 I'm afraid will follow the same flopping trend outside Japan and all thanks to Ubisoft.

So in conclusion, 3rd party devs that try to copy Nintendo's every steps will fail miserably on the Wii.
3rd party devs that don't take the hardcore crowd seriously will fail miserably on the Wii.
3rd party devs that thinks that a quick port will be bought will fail miserably on the Wii.
3rd party devs that don't innovate will fail miserably on the Wii.
3rd party devs that make cheap assed games will fail miserably on the Wii
3rd party devs that ignore the whole market the Wii has (Casual, hardcore, non-gamers) will fail miserably on the Wii.

This is a great post.

Question though, what is The Dog Island about? Looking at the game, it doesn't seem to be much more than the Petz games that have come out. Victorious Boxers Revolution looks interesting, but I've never seen the game anywhere. I'll have to check amazon.com to see if they have the game. Might pick it up.

The Dog Island is an RPG made by Yuke's. Of course it caters to the younger audience, but I've read the IGN review and they said the game was big and quite good.

I find it sad that Ubisoft publishes games to get some quick cash, rather than trying to make the game a hit.

 



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