By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - PS3 a faster money sink than the Xbox? I can see why no price cuts soon.

NJ5 said:

Regarding number 4, you misunderstood (or didn't see) Sony's actual declarations. They didn't say they'd break even on the games division, they said they'd break even on a per-hardware-unit cost.

Look here:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/62529-sony-corp-f3q07-9qtr-end-12-31-07-earnings-call-transcript?page=-

If you were right and the current manufacturing cost was $350, I don't see why they'd think they'd only start breaking even on hardware towards the end of fiscal 2008 (meaning more than 6 months from now, potentially almost 9 months).

We are now in fiscal year 2009, April 1, 2008 - March 31, 2009. The point in the interview above essentially stresses my assumptions that units _produced now_ are even on cost on a per-hardware-unit (with current sales distribution in the world regions) and that the manufacturing costs are around $350. (I have a reasonably good overview of hardware component costs from my past experiences in the electronics industry so I am pretty sure my cost breakdown of $350 per 40G PS3 (+10%/-5% is reasonably accurate. The breakdown can, however, breakdown if my assumptions are incorrect). Now how does that translate into the real world? The consumer pays a price X for the unit in the shop, which includes a sales tax (which can be anywhere from 0-100% if you live in the right or wrong country) and distributor margin (probably around 10%, margins are very low in that sector).

In NA, you pay about $400 (+local sales tax not included in this price) for a PS3 in the shop, In Japan, the price is lower (due to "home country where we must prevail considerations"), in Europe/Oceania, the price is significantly higher, over $600. In all likelyhood, Sony loses big in Japan, loses some in America/Asia and gains in Europe. As you can see, in the past weeks Europe/Oceania sells the most units while NA is losing and Japan is close to nonexisting. The low sales in Japan, where they lose the most money on hardware, and the small losses in America could easily be recovered with Europe/Oceania sales so total worldwide sales now can be cost neutral/positive, just as your link above suggests. (Now you see why Sony is milking Europe for as long as they can get away with). A critical question obviously is how low can manufacturing costs go, where is the pricepoint at which Sony cannot recover manufacturing costs. I don't think that point is far below $300 so a worldwide $299 PS3 would probably never be cost neutral for Sony.

 

 



Around the Network

@drkohler: It would help a lot if you checked your facts before posting.

Sony's Fiscal 2008 ends March 31 2009. We're still in FY2008.

Also, it's not an interview, it's a quarterly financial conference which is very different. The declarations therein don't stress your point, they debunk it.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/er.html

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

I hate crap threads like this spreading lies about Sony. The PS3 will soon be making money for Sony in a few months time when the new model PS3's are being sold. The new PS3 models will have 55nM chips in them and save Sony lots of money on manufacturing and they will make a profit on every PS3 sold.



NJ5 said:

@drkohler: It would help a lot if you checked your facts before posting.

Sony's Fiscal 2008 ends March 31 2009. We're still in FY2008.

Also, it's not an interview, it's a quarterly financial conference which is very different. The declarations therein don't stress your point, they debunk it.

 

Whn I clicked on of the links above, I got the Sony financial report which had all the 2008 dates written all over it so I was apparently off by a digit in my previous post. If I click the links now I get to a website which also includes a Q&A session (something of an interview). Now tell me _exactly_ where I am debunked in teh fiscal year report or the above link...



@drkohler:

It's a financial conference with questions from analysts/investors, if you want to call that an interview go ahead, that's not the main point anyway.

Yeah, you were off by a digit. In this case, it means you were off by a whole year. Therefore your assertion of "they're breaking even now" is also off by almost a year according to Sony's assumptions.

The point where you are debunked is precisely the point which I quoted above, in which it's said that they expect to break even on each hardware unit towards the end of the current fiscal year.

"Dan, your second question, PS3 cost update, since the introduction the cost has drastically decreased. How much I cannot disclose it. However, we can expect that sometime in late fiscal year '08, the cost to be equal to the selling price. Currently, the cost is higher than the price, but toward the second half the fiscal year '08 we could catch up."

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Around the Network
BengaBenga said:
Kasz216 said:
ssj12 said:
alpha_dk said:
ssj12 said:

 

Well with Blu-ray music might get a second round in the HD music players again. Thats right music on Blu-ray in stunning quality.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Surround_Records/Music_on_High-Def/Disc_Announcements/Tchaikovskys_Piano_Concertos_Audio_Blu-ray_Announced/1839

 

Lol?

 

I;m serious, I loved the idea of super-audio CDs back in the day. They offered a much cleaner sound then CDs. If they were Blu-Music Discs the audio quality would be amazing. 7.1 Uncompressed audio = awesome!

The problem is... you're about the only one.

If people cared about sound quality we wouldn't have CD's or Cassette tapes. Everyone would still be spinning the Vinyl.

Which is generally the problem. Your looking at this stuff from a tech enthusiasts point of view. Not from the view of the market as a whole.

I mean... why didn't Laserdisc catch on? It was better in every way. Why did VHS beat out Betamax when Beta was the better format?

These are the kind of things the tech enthusists miss.

 

Well, Vinyl is making a big return. The big electronic stores here all sell new Vinyl nowadays, so it's becoming mainstream again. All the new records are also printed on Vinyl.

I buy most of the stuff on vinyl, because it sounds enormously better. You don't need a professional audio set to hear that.

Are you sure it's becoming Mainstream?   Last time I checked it was just traditional DJs and the same musicphiles.  I'm sure it's percentage of the physical media has risen but that would be do to MP3's and stuff catching on.



Rock_on_2008 said:
So long as the PS3 outsells the XBox 360 in total console sales LTD. Beating the 360 in total market share is all that matters to the PS3. 5.5 million gap and closing. the Nintendo Wii is out of reach. The Wii is 14 million ahead of the PS3 and margin is growing.

I remember when the goal was PS3 domination (outselling the Wii).  It's truly shocking just how far the PS3's fortunes have fallen since launch but at least some people finally came back to reality and have faced the cold hard truth.  The PS3 hasn't even passed the 360 yet, it's losing tons of money and exclusives (*waves* to Star Ocean 4 & Monster Hunter 3), and yet some PS3 fans are declaring victory.  Victory at what?  Being willing to lose piles of money for marketshare?  The simple fact that Sony is in the situation it's currently in is huge victory for Microsoft.



Legend11 said:
Rock_on_2008 said:
So long as the PS3 outsells the XBox 360 in total console sales LTD. Beating the 360 in total market share is all that matters to the PS3. 5.5 million gap and closing. the Nintendo Wii is out of reach. The Wii is 14 million ahead of the PS3 and margin is growing.

I remember when the goal was PS3 domination (outselling the Wii).  It's truly shocking just how far the PS3's fortunes have fallen since launch but at least some people finally came back to reality and have faced the cold hard truth.  The PS3 hasn't even passed the 360 yet, it's losing tons of money and exclusives (*waves* to Star Ocean 4 & Monster Hunter 3), and yet some PS3 fans are declaring victory.  Victory at what?  Being willing to lose piles of money for marketshare?  The simple fact that Sony is in the situation it's currently in is huge victory for Microsoft.

MS PR spin king comes to the aid of the tanking 360. PS3 has outsold the XBox 360 for 35 straight weeks and counting. No end to the PS3 winning streak in site. PS3 has outsold the X360 in the first 25 weeks of the year by an average of 50000 consoles. PS3 is in a great position and is rapidly closing the gap on the X360. X360 barely sells 130k. PS3 sells over 200k most weeks. PS3 will not sell below 200k sales for the rest of the PS3's lifespan.

BTW: Last week sales PS3 sold 320k V's 360 sold only lol 130k. A 190k victory for the PS3.

 



Legend11 said:
Rock_on_2008 said:
So long as the PS3 outsells the XBox 360 in total console sales LTD. Beating the 360 in total market share is all that matters to the PS3. 5.5 million gap and closing. the Nintendo Wii is out of reach. The Wii is 14 million ahead of the PS3 and margin is growing.

I remember when the goal was PS3 domination (outselling the Wii).  It's truly shocking just how far the PS3's fortunes have fallen since launch but at least some people finally came back to reality and have faced the cold hard truth.  The PS3 hasn't even passed the 360 yet, it's losing tons of money and exclusives (*waves* to Star Ocean 4 & Monster Hunter 3), and yet some PS3 fans are declaring victory.  Victory at what?  Being willing to lose piles of money for marketshare?  The simple fact that Sony is in the situation it's currently in is huge victory for Microsoft.

 

Still in stage 1 hey Legend? 

It's time to move onto stage 2, Anger. 

Posted for you:

  1. Denial:
    • Example - "I feel fine."; "This can't be happening."
  2. Anger:
    • Example - "Why me? It's not fair!" "NO! NO! How can you accept this!"
  3. Bargaining:
    • Example - "Just let me live to see my children graduate."; "I'll do anything, can't you stretch it out? A few more years."
  4. Depression:
    • Example - "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die . . . What's the point?"
  5. Acceptance:
    • Example - "It's going to be OK."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."


Legend11 said:
Rock_on_2008 said:
So long as the PS3 outsells the XBox 360 in total console sales LTD. Beating the 360 in total market share is all that matters to the PS3. 5.5 million gap and closing. the Nintendo Wii is out of reach. The Wii is 14 million ahead of the PS3 and margin is growing.

I remember when the goal was PS3 domination (outselling the Wii).  It's truly shocking just how far the PS3's fortunes have fallen since launch but at least some people finally came back to reality and have faced the cold hard truth.  The PS3 hasn't even passed the 360 yet, it's losing tons of money and exclusives (*waves* to Star Ocean 4 & Monster Hunter 3), and yet some PS3 fans are declaring victory.  Victory at what?  Being willing to lose piles of money for marketshare?  The simple fact that Sony is in the situation it's currently in is huge victory for Microsoft.

Give up Legend11 PS3 is the winning console. X360 is destined to finish a distant last place. X360 will not reach 40 million LTD. 36.0 million LTD is my prediction of 360 lifetime sales. PS3 will sell over 100 million consoles LTD.