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Forums - Sony Discussion - MGS4 storyline related questions (DO NOT ENTER UNLESS COMPLETED MGS4)

DO NOT READ FURTHER UNLESS YOU HAVE COMPLETED THE ENTIRE GAME. CONSIDERING THIS WARNING I WILL NOT BE PLACING SPOILER TAGS AROUND INDIVIDUAL QUESTIONS BELOW AS EACH OF THEM CONSTITUTE MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T FINISHED MGS4.

I just finished the game for my second time and am planning on a review but first I want clarify certain aspects of the storyline that were muddled for me. So for those of you who have beaten the game I'd appreciate if you could clarify a few things.

1) We know the reasons for Vamp's immortality however I don't recall any explanation given as to why he was fighting alongside Ocelot? He and Ocelot were on conflicting sides in MGS2 and the first few chapters of MGS4 highlight the surprise of Snake when witnessing Vamps involvement with Ocelot's grand scheme. What were Vamps motives?

2) I understand Naomi's motives but why was she caressing Vamp prior to his fight with Snake and why did Vamp call her Queen (an obvious reference Fortune)?. The entire scene seemed like a throwback to Vamp and Fortunes relationship in MGS2 but I don't understand Naomi's importance or relation to either of those characters.

3) The ending dialog with Big Boss implies to me that Eva was aware that the corpse she was carrying was in fact the body of Solidus. Why did she then risk her life by walking into the flames of the burning corpse during the ending sequences of Act 3? If she wasn't aware of this then how did the mixup happen between Raidens delivery of what was ostensibly Big Boss' corpse?

4) Was it ever explained how Sunny was found and rescued and how Raiden ended up as a Cyborg Ninja? Dr Madnar was responsible for his exoskeleton but are the reasons for Raiden's deterioration ever adressed?

5) I realize it was implied and meant to be somewhat vague but what is your interpretation on why Raiden and Rose broke up following their wedding?

6) It turns out that Ocelot was essentially "faking" Liquids posession of his identity. The System at the time was not in tact and as a founding member of the Patriots he should have been aware that all original members minus possibly Zero were dead. Why and who did he mean to fool with this Hybrid of Liquid Ocelot? JD? Wouldn't Liquids control of Ocelots mind also erase the intimate and crucial information Ocelot posessed of the Patriots making his goal of destroying the organization needlessly complex?



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1) I don't know this, but I'm guessing that Vamp would be interested in seeing The Patriots destroyed as well.

2) I think that it is Naomis way of twisting Vamp towards her, but I don't know to what purpose.

3) I think that she knew it wasn't Big Boss, but she believed that she had finished her part in the grand scheme. After all she isn't the only one to give up their life for this mission to save Big Boss, looking at the sacrifice Ocelot made.

4) Nope

5)  I didn't think they got married, but only engaged. But maybe that is just me having missed something?

6)  DOn't know



1) Liquid and Solidus had pretty much the same goal. Besides, Ocelot may have told Vamp about the plan.

2) Naomi probably wanted to seem like she was on Vamp's side. Or maybe she wanted to provoke Vamp into attacking Snake so that Snake could kill him. After all, Snake did know how to kill Vamp at that point.

3) I guess I missed something.

4) Is it even important? Maybe Raiden simply got injured while saving Sunny. Or maybe he voluntarily took the exoskeleton to accomplish his mission. Who cares anyway.

5) There was no wedding, only engagement. And it's also perfectly explained in the game: to protect Raiden during his mission. Is was all a smoke screen.

6) I'll have to play again. This is one of the things I must have missed. 



I dont know if you guys noticed but in one of the cut scenes there was a diologue about how war has become a game for young soldeirs and it scrolled through all of the MG games and at the end it had 2 "under cosntuction" spaces... that means 2 games r still coming. One will be "MGS Ocelot" and the asstablishment of outer haven and the next i think will be about raiden which i think will explain more about what happend to him and sunny. (just a speculation tho)



what i want to know is how did raiden get that kick ass cyborg body.

dont recall them mentioning it at all.



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I didnt understand Naomi being a traitor either. Everything she did from the inside she could have done from the outside as well. That was confusing to me.

And people who said they missed something, after the games credits role you see snake in a cemetery and Big Boss walks up to him, rolling Zero in a wheel chair. I almost turned the game off after I beat it as well, but when I saw the credits rolling I left it on just in case.

This cut scene was like an hour long. Actually, I fell asleep like 3 times during it. It wasn't that I wasnt interested, it was just that I was playing until 4am trying to beat the game.



i need an answer now



so the 12 wisemen's committee mentioned in MGS2 are the Philosophers mentioned in MGS3, except they all died in the 1930s



1. Vamp probably just didn't have anywhere to go after his squad died, and he probably has no problem working for the highest bidder. He doesn't seem to care much about his own life anyways. His involvement with Naomi may have contributed something to this, but all in all it just isn't clear.

2. It really isn't totally clear what Naomi's motives are. She may or may not have had some kind of romantic liason with Vamp. She may have just been doing it in order to get closer to Liquid's plan, but that would mean they probably were romantic. Once again it really isn't clear, and in this case I think Kojima kind of intended it to be that way as a lesson on moral ambiguity slightly similar to what he did with The Boss in MSG3.

3. I don't think Eva knew that it was Solidus, or else she wouldn't have felt such a personal attachment to the body. She probably wouldn't have been keeping it alive for any other purpose. She may or may not have known that his DNA allows you to connect up with the Patriot system as a passkey. Her going into the flames leads me to believe she thought it was Big Boss. But did they say in the end that it was her who helped reassemble Big Boss?

4. No, it wasn't explained (at least where I saw) where Sunny was or how Raiden rescued her. It wasn't totally clear who did all the work on his body either. What I want to know is how they put his arms back on! How the hell did he go back to being a normal, biological person after all that. I thought he replaced his blood with artificial blood. Once again, it isn't totally clear.

5. Raiden just seemed to not be able to handle going back to his regular life after all of the revelations about himself and the world which he came to during the MGS2 mission. Did he blank out his past about being a child soldier? If so, those memories resurfacing may have had a lot to do with it. He just couldn't accept a normal life after the events in MGS2, especially after he learned about The Patriots.

6. This honestly may have been a decision Kojima made later and just accomodated the story to account for, but he has been setting up Ocelot to be a strange double or triple agent since MGS1 (remember conversation after credits). Ocelot obviously was involved with the U.S. government, even as early as in MGS3, and it is definitely plausible that he was a member of The Patriots all along. After Liquid completely took over Ocelot, I think the way it works is that Liquid can tap into whatever Ocelot has physically or mentally, but Ocelot was pretty much entirely dormant. That way Liquid would have the info Ocelot had. I honestly think Liquid could have figured out a fair amount of it on his own though, especially with his knowledge about the importance of Big Boss's genetic code.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 said:

1. Vamp probably just didn't have anywhere to go after his squad died, and he probably has no problem working for the highest bidder. He doesn't seem to care much about his own life anyways. His involvement with Naomi may have contributed something to this, but all in all it just isn't clear.

2. It really isn't totally clear what Naomi's motives are. She may or may not have had some kind of romantic liason with Vamp. She may have just been doing it in order to get closer to Liquid's plan, but that would mean they probably were romantic. Once again it really isn't clear, and in this case I think Kojima kind of intended it to be that way as a lesson on moral ambiguity slightly similar to what he did with The Boss in MSG3.

3. I don't think Eva knew that it was Solidus, or else she wouldn't have felt such a personal attachment to the body. She probably wouldn't have been keeping it alive for any other purpose. She may or may not have known that his DNA allows you to connect up with the Patriot system as a passkey. Her going into the flames leads me to believe she thought it was Big Boss. But did they say in the end that it was her who helped reassemble Big Boss?

4. No, it wasn't explained (at least where I saw) where Sunny was or how Raiden rescued her. It wasn't totally clear who did all the work on his body either. What I want to know is how they put his arms back on! How the hell did he go back to being a normal, biological person after all that. I thought he replaced his blood with artificial blood. Once again, it isn't totally clear.

5. Raiden just seemed to not be able to handle going back to his regular life after all of the revelations about himself and the world which he came to during the MGS2 mission. Did he blank out his past about being a child soldier? If so, those memories resurfacing may have had a lot to do with it. He just couldn't accept a normal life after the events in MGS2, especially after he learned about The Patriots.

6. This honestly may have been a decision Kojima made later and just accomodated the story to account for, but he has been setting up Ocelot to be a strange double or triple agent since MGS1 (remember conversation after credits). Ocelot obviously was involved with the U.S. government, even as early as in MGS3, and it is definitely plausible that he was a member of The Patriots all along. After Liquid completely took over Ocelot, I think the way it works is that Liquid can tap into whatever Ocelot has physically or mentally, but Ocelot was pretty much entirely dormant. That way Liquid would have the info Ocelot had. I honestly think Liquid could have figured out a fair amount of it on his own though, especially with his knowledge about the importance of Big Boss's genetic code.

 

Thanks for the thought out reply.

One more question though, why did Ocelot use Liquid as a disguise? What did he gain from going through hypnotherapy and everything else to essentially mold Liquids personality over his own? I remember something about doing so to elude the Patriots attention but I don't quite understand how this was to any benefit of Ocelot?