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Forums - Sales - "Wii Third-Party Struggles Highlighted by May NPD" - GameDaily

Bodhesatva said:
Kasz216 said:
Bodhesatva said:
Viper1 said:
Bodhesatva said:
Viper1 said:
Hey Bod, you're calculating retail cost, not wholesale.

Right? As I said, 4-5 of the extra 10 retail dollars go to the producers. Can you explain what's wrong with that?


Because retailers don't buy the game at $60.00, they pay approximately $48.00 from the distributor (Jack of all Games, D&H Distributing, Ingram Entertainment, Mecca electronics, etc...) who pay even less from the publisher. ~$40.00 depending on their annual unit contract.

 

Now you want to redo your math?


That's exactly what I did, we're just looking at this from different angles.

Of the 60 total dollars, retailers get a share, developers get a share, publishers get a share, console manufacturer gets a share.

Both the Wii and Ps3/360 suffer from this problem, the difference is that with Ps3/360 games, retailers get an additional 2-3 dollars, the console manufacturer gets an additional 2-3 dollars, which leaves an additional 4-5 dollars for the publisher/developer, totaling 10 extra dollars.

Let me put it more generally: there are 10 dollars more to go around with each game sold on the PS3/360. Some of that 10 dollars go to retail, some to the console manufacturer, and whatever is "extra money" for the developer/publisher. That extra money adds up when you're talking about large amounts of sales.


The question is... are you sure that the developer is even getting any piece of that larger price... You've also got to add in the extra expenses that HD console development can bring shipping and production wise.


I am adding in that extra cost, Kaz. That was the whole point of my post.

If you don't sell many copies, then you don't make the extra development costs back. If you sell lots of copies, you do. Look at simple examples.

Wii game: 10 million dev cost.
PS3/360 game: 20 million dev cost.

If we assume each PS3/360 game gives 4 dollars extra per copy, then the following math holds:

1 million copies sold: The PS3/360 game makes 4 million dollars more than the Wii game. The PS3/360 game therefore "makes back" 4 million of the additional development cost.

2 million copies sold: 8 million dollars more than the equivalent Wii game.

2.5 million copies sold: 10 million dollars more than the equivalent Wii game.

In this simplified model, a 10 million dollar Wii game and 20 million dollar PS3/360 game have made equivalent amounts of profit. Whatever the profit is is irrelevant; if it's 100 million dollars for the Wii, the PS3/360 version has made 100 million also, but it has done so by producing 10 million more revenue and costing 10 million more to make.

Now, any copies sold beyond 2.5 million mean the PS3/360 project has made more money.

 

 

 

I'm not entirely sure where the cut off point is,of course, but I don't think there is any question that the mega-hit games on the PS3/360 make more money than the mega hit games for the Wii, even when you factor in development cost.


No i'm talking about the fixed costs of production. It costs more to make and buy blu-ray discs..... etc.

That's part of the reason for the extra $10 as well. Of course this is a bigger deal for the PS3. It's still something to take into consideration. Each platform has different fixed costs of production.

What i'm saying is that i believe none of that extra $10 actually makes it back to the developers and they make the same margin (or VERY close) per copy as they would a Wii game... to where even 5 million copies wouldn't make much difference.

That everything is getting eaten up by the publisher and others basically.



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Look at the top ten 3rd party games for the Wii.

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
Carnival Games
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
MySims

What do 8 out of 10 of them have in common? They can be marketed to other than teenage males!!

When more 3rd parties figure that out, they will do better on the Wii.

And DarkNight is right, Bod. Just make two Wii games for the 20M and compare those numbers to the 1 20M game of the PS3/MS.



Torturing the numbers.  Hear them scream.

damkira said:

My god, Legend11. Its as if Nintendo raped your mother and killed your dog... You go so far out of your way to post news items which make Nintendo look bad that its uncanny.

 


He does it with Sony too.



Kasz216 said:No i'm talking about the fixed costs of production. It costs more to make and buy blu-ray discs..... etc.

That's part of the reason for the extra $10 as well. Of course this is a bigger deal for the PS3. It's still something to take into consideration. Each platform has different fixed costs of production.

What i'm saying is that i believe none of that extra $10 actually makes it back to the developers and they make the same margin (or VERY close) per copy as they would a Wii game... to where even 5 million copies wouldn't make much difference.

That everything is getting eaten up by the publisher and others basically.


It's also producing HD content that runs up such a huge dev budget.

You have to consider that when every texture, lighting effect, etc. has to be designed at 2X the standard resolution, you have a situation where devs need to spend a great deal more time paying artists to create these textures and effects.

There's also the fact that the PS360 dev kits cost more. 



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

As a relative new comer to these forums, I don't expect much credibility.

But the discussion here seems arbitrary at best. To say that the perceived lack of 3rd party support on the Wii is Nintendo's fault seems idiotic. To say that this perceived lack of 3rd party support is a major problem seems like nit-picking.

It appears to an outsider that your looking for a third party game with GTAIV sales on the Wii. And that you are blameing Nintendo for the lack of such a game. Nintendo's first party titles are so good that, in all seriousness, they dont need 3rd party titles -- and therefore dont cater to them. Why should they start given sales and market share?



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GameDaily ranked Rock Band as a better game than Chrono Trigger, SSMB, or GTA IV.
(I won't even rail that SMG was not even on the list).

I am not sure it can be considered a credible source. 8*>

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV

I will concur with one thing that has been mentioned in this thread -- the ads for Bloom Box are mistargeted.

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV

Honestly, a very disappointing debut. Couldn't even beat Game Party. Eek.

Is #25 the lowest ranking game that we have sales figures for? What other games do we have both a ranking of less than 20 and sales figures for it? Sorry slightly off-topic.



Hi there.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_Game_Sales - A wiki for video game sales figures

I just bought Boom Blox yesterday. It's so awesome.



I'm working on a Wii bingo card for some future thread about a third-party games built from the ground up for the Wii that flopping. It'll have stuff like "Niche Game", "Not Enough Marketing", "Marketed Incorrectly", "Lower budget than HD game", "Game is no good", "Europe will save it", etc.