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Forums - Sony Discussion - Penny-Arcade- interesting note about MGS4 install times

ZenfoldorVGI on 14 June 2008
DMeisterJ said:
All this install whining is such old news.

People really need to get over themselves.

If there is nothing bad to say about the game, you have to say something about installs.

I guess it just goes to show how much of a masterpiece MGS4 is. So let all the "ZOMG the installz" whine about that while PS3 owners get to enjoy a marvel, one of the greatest games of the generation. I give Kojima props for his game being so good, that all people can hate on is install times.

Well, I love the installs actually.

 

However, the point of the article is that IF Blu-Ray disc requires installs instead of disc swaps then there really is no advantage.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

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makingmusic476 on 14 June 2008

How many times must I point out Uncharted and Ratchet & Clank. >_<

It's all in the way you use the disc.  Many ps3 exclusives are often barely compressing data on the disc (some things aren't compressed at all) so that they can then be streamed directly from the disc during gameplay, resulting in no installs nor loadtimes like Uncharted, or no installs with little loading like Ratchet & Clank.

Multiplats, for the most part, are made with the 360 in mind, so instead of utilizing drastically different methods of loading data off the disc for each version, they use more traditional methods for both consoles while throwing in the HDD to assist the ps3's Blu-Ray drive.

If the added space of Blu-Ray is effetively used, you can end up with a game like Uncharted.  Stunning graphics, high rez textures, no installs, no loading, etc.



JSF on 14 June 2008

Every time the subject of installs is brought up, comparisons of disc access speeds get brought up for comparison. It's a running joke by the ignorant. I'll tell you why.

Do you know the history of installs on consoles? First, what is an "install"? An "install" is a dedicated cache, correct? The first mainstream console to cache games was none other than the original Microsoft Xbox. The original Xbox had like a 13GB HDD, and, if you ever poked into the file and directory structure of that drive, you will see that it used some of that hard drive space to cache game data.

Now, next question, what kind of media did the original Xbox use? The correct answer is DVD5 and, on rare occasion, DVD9. That's right, DVD5 and DVD9 were considered slow enough to warrant disk caching (installs) on the original Xbox, a process Microsoft "pioneered" on mainstream gaming consoles.

The ONLY reason why the Xbox 360 does NOT have installs or caching is because they farked up and created a SKU that did not have a hard drive standard. The access speeds and all that bullshit is just PR spin to try to cover up that deficiency.

Next time some ignorant gamer brings up the disc speed comparisons again as an explanation why the Xbox 360 doesn't do installs, laugh in their face. Then explain the history to them of caching/installs on consoles. Then bring up the horrible nightmare that is Mass Effect as an example of how poorly even DVD performs by itself. Mention this to the halfwits at Penny Arcade as well.

Let me summarize all this now:
The original Xbox was a DVD system and it still had hard drive caching.  In fact, it started hard drive caching on consoles.  Not being able to support caching/installs is actually a step backwards now in the evolution of the disc-based console.  The only reason the Xbox 360 doesn't continue what its predecessor started is because Microsoft invented the lame Core package.  If all Xbox 360's had a hard drive, they'd be caching and installing DVD's all the same.

 



CrazzyMan on 14 June 2008

HDD install is THE REASON, why MGS4 at THIS Quality CAN`T be done on x360.
Or do you think, Kojima wouldn`t make MGS4 WITHOUT installs and donwloadings like Uncharted IF this would be possible??? =))
MGS4 HAS BEST VISUALS and that is possible ONLY on PS3 thnx to blu-ray and HDD.



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

DMeisterJ on 14 June 2008

You can never win with people.

They don't want huge installs that take a long time, and take up lots of space, so you do small installs that take a short time and less space and they are still not happy.

Sheesh. Can't win sometimes.



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ZenfoldorVGI on 14 June 2008
DMeisterJ said:
You can never win with people.

They don't want huge installs that take a long time, and take up lots of space, so you do small installs that take a short time and less space and they are still not happy.

Sheesh. Can't win sometimes.

I'm not arguing with you, any of you. I'm just point out what THIS article is implying. Not what I think.

 

What I think is if every game I bought had to have a 3 hour install time to make the game load one second faster after each cutscene, I would gladly wait 3 hours after I brought it home to play it. Fair enough? 



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Rath on 14 June 2008
CrazzyMan said:
HDD install is THE REASON, why MGS4 at THIS Quality CAN`T be done on x360.
Or do you think, Kojima wouldn`t make MGS4 WITHOUT installs and donwloadings like Uncharted IF this would be possible??? =))
MGS4 HAS BEST VISUALS and that is possible ONLY on PS3 thnx to blu-ray and HDD.



Username2324 on 14 June 2008
twesterm said:

I read this over on Penny-Arcade and thought it was pretty interesting (NOTE-- whole post here):

In the space of our play experience, we've already seen two separate installs. The game is still broken up into discrete areas, which I found odd, the assumption being that if we were taking time out to install shit it was because we were doing it to sustain a single world. You would have a hard time convincing me that multiple installs over the course of playing a videogame are worse than disc swapping. This has become some kind of theological question on forums, a kind of philosophical pinata, except no matter how many times you strike it no reward is forthcoming. Blu-Ray is only a convenience if it is actually convenient, if it doesn't require concessions either at the beginning of an experience or at several points throughout. It's amazing to me that this is considered progress.

They do raise a good point there. Is BluRay really convenient if instead of swapping discs you get installs at various points in your game?

It is not Blu-rays doing for install times, it is the game makers, they do it to avoid multiple load times, GTA load times for example are usually no more than a second or two.

 



FJ-Warez on 14 June 2008
JSF said:

That's right, DVD5 and DVD9 were considered slow enough to warrant disk caching (installs) on the original Xbox, a process Microsoft "pioneered" on mainstream gaming consoles.

The ONLY reason why the Xbox 360 does NOT have installs or caching is because they farked up and created a SKU that did not have a hard drive standard. The access speeds and all that bullshit is just PR spin to try to cover up that deficiency.


 Original Xbox Reading speed...

 2x - 5x DVD Drive (2.6 MB/s – 6.6 MB/s)

 360 Reading speed...

 12x DVD drive  (15.85 MB/s)

 

Anyways,  I agree in the part of the big bad decision made by MS...



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Kasz216 on 14 June 2008
makingmusic476 said:

How many times must I point out Uncharted and Ratchet & Clank. >_<

It's all in the way you use the disc. Many ps3 exclusives are often barely compressing data on the disc (some things aren't compressed at all) so that they can then be streamed directly from the disc during gameplay, resulting in no installs nor loadtimes like Uncharted, or no installs with little loading like Ratchet & Clank.

Multiplats, for the most part, are made with the 360 in mind, so instead of utilizing drastically different methods of loading data off the disc for each version, they use more traditional methods for both consoles while throwing in the HDD to assist the ps3's Blu-Ray drive.

If the added space of Blu-Ray is effetively used, you can end up with a game like Uncharted. Stunning graphics, high rez textures, no installs, no loading, etc.


 So your saying MGS4 is coming to 360?