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Forums - Sony Discussion - Penny-Arcade- interesting note about MGS4 install times

Kasz216 on 13 June 2008
starcraft said:
Saiyar said:
Kasz216 said:
Saiyar said:
 

I am a bit confused as to why you think this is relavent? The size of the game data isn't going to change just because it is on DVD instead of blu-ray

It will if it's on 2 or 3 DVDs. The data would be split up so their would be less space to cover.

Now i am really confused. Just because it is split up doesn't mean there is less space to cover (it is not like the 360 can read form 3 DVDs at once). 25GB on a BD is the same as 25GB on 3 DVDs.

The only thing I can think of he might mean is that fact that most Blu-Ray disk games reproduce identical data due to the Blu-Ray disk drive's lower maximum read speed. Thats why you can have multiplatform games that come on a DVD9 for 360 but take up 15GB of a Blu-Ray disk for PS3.

But he is a bit confusing today, so he may mean something else.

 


Yeah it does.

When Blu Ray is trying to find something on it's 25GB disc it takes longer then DVD despite being slightly faster because it has 25GB to work through instead of 9.

The bigger the size of the disc, the slower the readtime is going to be, hence why the PS3 does reproduce a lot of identical data.

Since Metal Gear Solid takes place in many different locations that are very varied it would actually be quicker to have differnt locations on different discs since their shouldn't be too much reuse of graphical assets.

 



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ZenfoldorVGI on 13 June 2008
twesterm said:

I read this over on Penny-Arcade and thought it was pretty interesting (NOTE-- whole post here):

In the space of our play experience, we've already seen two separate installs. The game is still broken up into discrete areas, which I found odd, the assumption being that if we were taking time out to install shit it was because we were doing it to sustain a single world. You would have a hard time convincing me that multiple installs over the course of playing a videogame are worse than disc swapping. This has become some kind of theological question on forums, a kind of philosophical pinata, except no matter how many times you strike it no reward is forthcoming. Blu-Ray is only a convenience if it is actually convenient, if it doesn't require concessions either at the beginning of an experience or at several points throughout. It's amazing to me that this is considered progress.

They do raise a good point there. Is BluRay really convenient if instead of swapping discs you get installs at various points in your game?


No. I thought it was fairly obvious that for gaming, Blu-Ray is little more than a talking point.

 

Its true purpose is to add a Blu-Ray player into the PS3, as well as to move Sony's infant format into as many homes as possible, as quicly as possible. There is no better way than speed-welding it to a Playstation console, even if its weight did almost sink the brand early on.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

FaRmLaNd on 13 June 2008

There's also the pr stunt where they used as much uncompressed data as possible thus leaving less room for duplications of data.



ocnkng on 14 June 2008

Ha ha its funny to see how some of the guys here are nitpicking about minor glitches and annoyances about this awesome game. The best part is that of the guys bitching the most are the ones who don't have a PS3 and haven't played the game. You guys shud take a break, seriously, its not that bad not to be playing the greatest game on earth.



 

It is better to die on one's feet

then live on one's knees

makingmusic476 on 14 June 2008
twesterm said:

I read this over on Penny-Arcade and thought it was pretty interesting (NOTE-- whole post here):

In the space of our play experience, we've already seen two separate installs. The game is still broken up into discrete areas, which I found odd, the assumption being that if we were taking time out to install shit it was because we were doing it to sustain a single world. You would have a hard time convincing me that multiple installs over the course of playing a videogame are worse than disc swapping. This has become some kind of theological question on forums, a kind of philosophical pinata, except no matter how many times you strike it no reward is forthcoming. Blu-Ray is only a convenience if it is actually convenient, if it doesn't require concessions either at the beginning of an experience or at several points throughout.  It's amazing to me that this is considered progress.

They do raise a good point there.  Is BluRay really convenient if instead of swapping discs you get installs at various points in your game?


 It's all in the way you use the disc.  Uncharted is the best looking game on the ps3, and it has no installs nor any loading.  R&C is also quite the looker with no installs and very little loading.

Streaming uncompressed (well, damn near uncompressed) textures and other assets = epic win.



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Kasz216 on 14 June 2008
ZenfoldorVGI said:
twesterm said:

I read this over on Penny-Arcade and thought it was pretty interesting (NOTE-- whole post here):

In the space of our play experience, we've already seen two separate installs. The game is still broken up into discrete areas, which I found odd, the assumption being that if we were taking time out to install shit it was because we were doing it to sustain a single world. You would have a hard time convincing me that multiple installs over the course of playing a videogame are worse than disc swapping. This has become some kind of theological question on forums, a kind of philosophical pinata, except no matter how many times you strike it no reward is forthcoming. Blu-Ray is only a convenience if it is actually convenient, if it doesn't require concessions either at the beginning of an experience or at several points throughout. It's amazing to me that this is considered progress.

They do raise a good point there. Is BluRay really convenient if instead of swapping discs you get installs at various points in your game?


No. I thought it was fairly obvious that for gaming, Blu-Ray is little more than a talking point.

 

Its true purpose is to add a Blu-Ray player into the PS3, as well as to move Sony's infant format into as many homes as possible, as quicly as possible. There is no better way than speed-welding it to a Playstation console, even if its weight did almost sink the brand early on.


 Blu-ray will be better for gaming, eventually.  Assuming they upgrade the PS3's drive when they redesign.



makingmusic476 on 14 June 2008
starcraft said:
darthdevidem01 said:
ok..I understand now....this will pose a problem to my plan of showing the best bits of the game to my friends.

Is there now a way to lock a certain install

Fiddle around to try and find it, but at this stage it isn't looking like it.

If this becomes a trend for console games, thats just ridiculous.

Lol, if its like this for MGS4, imagine Killzone 2.

 

 

Killzone 2 is 1st party, so it will probably go the Uncharted/Ratchet & Clank route - no installs and very little loading.

Hell, back when they released the E307 demo the devs said that they had yet to implement texture streaming (used heavily in R&C and Uncharted, hence the little loading), which is why the textures improved so much from the E307 demo to the demo shown this past May.

It's really awesome the way Sony's 1st party studios (and 2nd, in the case of Insomniac) work together to get the best out of the ps3.  All their studios are constantly sharing tech (and sometimes even actual developers, lol).



superchunk on 14 June 2008
Aprisaiden said:
The install are fine and fun little part of the game.

last night it gave me the message "It's now 3am, you must be tired - take a break everynow and then.". and "You have been playing for over 2 hours".

Besides Changing discs take what 30 - 45secs. By the time you change your disc and start loading the new data into ram MGS4 is 50% done installing. Once you start playing the game MGS4 will only be a few seconds slower....

** ohh and starcraft - installs havent used up all my 60gb Ps3's space yet and i own 18 PS3 games - all of them with installs ( even NG:S's optional 3.3gb install) are still on my HDD ... The installs are only an issue for small number of people -- and if your one of those people you should be able to throw a 320gb or 500gb HDD into your PS3 to solve the problem ...


 lol, hahahahahaha

 This sounds like the same pr bs Nintendo is giving about not having a good storage solution yet. lol hahahaha.

 Installs should only be on PC games. There is no way around that. Consoles are not supposed to work like PC games. That is the point with buying a console. You lose some graphical quality in exchange for convienance and ease of use. 

And don't give me that ish that the PS360 are as good as PC quality. That is just bs and you know it. Devs are just taking advantage of the HDD's instead of focusing on their code. I garauntee you if the PS360 did not have an HDD there would be no installs and you would get the exact same games as you have now with installs. HDD and internet connections have made console games have less quality control.  



windbane on 14 June 2008
ZenfoldorVGI said:
twesterm said:

I read this over on Penny-Arcade and thought it was pretty interesting (NOTE-- whole post here):

In the space of our play experience, we've already seen two separate installs. The game is still broken up into discrete areas, which I found odd, the assumption being that if we were taking time out to install shit it was because we were doing it to sustain a single world. You would have a hard time convincing me that multiple installs over the course of playing a videogame are worse than disc swapping. This has become some kind of theological question on forums, a kind of philosophical pinata, except no matter how many times you strike it no reward is forthcoming. Blu-Ray is only a convenience if it is actually convenient, if it doesn't require concessions either at the beginning of an experience or at several points throughout. It's amazing to me that this is considered progress.

They do raise a good point there. Is BluRay really convenient if instead of swapping discs you get installs at various points in your game?


No. I thought it was fairly obvious that for gaming, Blu-Ray is little more than a talking point.

 

Its true purpose is to add a Blu-Ray player into the PS3, as well as to move Sony's infant format into as many homes as possible, as quicly as possible. There is no better way than speed-welding it to a Playstation console, even if its weight did almost sink the brand early on.


You know, I'm sure a lot of people said the same thing about DVD around the time Baldur's Gate came out on either 6 CDs or 1 DVD...why do we need a new format? More space? Nah... MGS4 is huge. My only complaint is not having the option to choose a big install for all the chapters at once. I don't want to wait 2-3 minutes inbetween chapters, assuming I ever want to go back and forth..which come to thnk of it, I probably won't...but the fe minutes wait 5 times in the game isn't bad. I understand the reduction in space needed but I don't worry about that. As others have said, though, the speed of blu-ray (at 2x on PS3) is faster than the DL-DVD at 12x that the 360 uses. Uncharted = no load times. There is nothing wrong with blu-ray.



misteromar mk4 on 14 June 2008

So all these claims that blu-ray was better than having multiple disc are null-void



-UBISOFT BOYCOTT!-