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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Let's face it: PS3 has potential to grow its userbase, 360 does not.

Staude on 10 June 2008
mrstickball said:
Deep analysis if your a Sony fan....Not if your an analyst.

The issue is that any game system, given the right conditions can re-emerge as a solid contender, or die off.

There is still far too much of this generation left, and much more can, and will be done to change the landscape of how the end plays out (regardless, I see the Wii being #1, PS3 being #2 and X360 being #3, but by how much, is a very big margin).

The issue is, as much as Sony fans want to claim, the PS3 was on life support, until Sony made a smart move and dropped the price to such a low level, that fans would buy the system.

On the other hand, Microsoft has not done that. Their price drops have been very little in it's biggest market, the US. We've already seen in Europe that an aggressive price drop.

Xbox 360 in Other Last Year: 22,433 Units/Wk (June 9th)
Xbox 360 in Other This Year: 72,548 Units/Wk (June 7th)

Do you see the difference in sales, or not? It's hard to say that a system has limited, failing potential when it's sales are roughly 200% higher year over year in a rather large region. Because of this legitimate, hard data, I don't see how you can say the 360 is falling by the wayside, when it's obviously been a decent condender.

Having said this, the 360's future is in it's own hands, not Sonys. If Microsoft decided that it wanted to beat Sony (easily, I might add), a Euro-style price drop to $199 USD for the Arcade, and $279 for the Pro would bolster sales for the rest of the year. If Sony failed to drop the price and hurt their bottom line deeply, the 360 would keep a strong lead until the next generation device came out.

Crazzy - Your exactly right. If Sony drops the PS3 to $299 Euro or $299 USD, you would see a huge increase in sales. But the 360 is the same way. Dropping it's price in the US will have the same, huge, emboldening effect.


So again, your crazy to think that the 360 has seen all of it's potential. When you have a product that has had very small price cuts over it's lifespan, yet still having decent sales, it still has life. The 360 could easily raise to 200,000 Units/Wk when the 360 drops its price in the US. But of course, we can merely speculate about the future of the 360 and PS3. Regardless though, it will take smart moves by either company. But at any rate, the PS3 is still behind the 360 by a large margin, and the 360 (I feel) has the potential to make a few, easy, moves to castrate the PS3 until it decides to take another hit on the price and lose more money, or do something else of the sorts.

 you can get a 360 for almost half of a ps3 around here.. Yet the ps3 still sells more.. now comon !.. it's even cheaper than the wii !



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mrstickball on 10 June 2008

Double Post :(



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball on 10 June 2008
mrstickball said:
CrazzyMan said:
@mrstickball, Till x360 won`t have failure rate less then 3%, price won`t help MUCH.
The only problem in USA for ps3/x360 - weak $.

Also, MANY x360 games coming to PC, and by 2009, MOST average PCs will without problem run Crysis on High and maybe even Very High settings.
Those who wanted to get x360 games earlier, then they come on PC, already bought x360, that`s why x360 sales are now declining.
There are NOT much REAL exclusives, NOT timed, But REAL, like Forza 2, dead Rising, Crackdown and etc.

While MOST PS3 exclusives STAY exclusives.
How many PS3 games were ported to x360? =)

When PS3 will have games like KZ2, MGS4, LBP, R2, M:PR, FFXIII, GT5 it will be TOO LATE for x360 pricecut.

Of`course x360 won`t dissapear anywhere, it will be selling with around 100k maybe 150k, and at best case 200k per week. But That`s all.
Come on, look at NG2 sales.

Despite the 360 having below 5% now, it doesn't seem to of changed sales patterns.

Using fanboy "but the games are coming to PC" drivel is useless. Gamers aren't flocking to the PC en-masse that would cause any sort of shift to hurt the 360 when it has so many PC/X360 games. So I don't understand wha kind of stupid argument you are making here.

And you, as others, are using the same tired argument of "but this game is coming to the Playstation 3 and will boost it's sales to the heavens!" - Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a huge list of games that failed to move hardware (GT5p, DMC 4, GTAIV,  Gundam Mousou, HSG5, Dynasty Warriors 6). Why am I to randomly expect new games to succueede where othes have utterly failed. What about the 360's example? Halo 3 did move units, but failed to establish any sort of trend due to a restrictive price point. How is the Playstation 3 going to differ from this at all?

Saying that a half-dozen games on the Playstation 3 are going to "break" the 360, and the usefulness of a pricecut are entirely wishful thinking from a person that so desperately wishes the Playstation 3 wasn't so far behind in 3rd place.

[/quote]

mrstickball said:


==> so low level ?
it is only a 100$ price drop  and the system entry price is still way beyond the average casual pocket ...
  • And the 360 could drop the price $100 before the PS3 could, and have the same desired effect, Lil. The 360 is still beyond the casual pocket too. So it's hard to understand how lowering the X360's price in it's

 


==> let's do this for the PS3 which has no special offer except the poor GTA4 bundle ...

last year : 25k
this year : 90k

no need to comment ... 

 

  • And this goes to show exactly how critical price drops are. The PS3 emerged very strong due to a price drop. Guess what? We can safely assume that when the PS3 drops price, it'll sell better. The same goes for the 360. Difference is, the 360 has had a much smaller price drop, thereforehas more to gain.



Do you see the difference in sales, or not? It's hard to say that a system has limited, failing potential when it's sales are roughly 200% higher year over year in a rather large region JUST AFTER AN IMPORTANT PRICE CUT. Because of this legitimate, hard data, I don't see how you can say the 360 is falling by the wayside, when it's obviously been a decent condender.

  • The pice cut happened what? 4 months ago? If it was going to be  random bump in sales, it would of stopped selling like it has months ago...But it's remained at the 70,000 level for nearly 4 months now. That's not a small difference, it's establishing a new sales trend. Exactly like what the PS3 has done.
 

==> no, because it beings to look "old" whatever it is truly old or not.
It is simply too late to drop the price, they had to be agreesive LAST year when they were on the rise ...
  • So your saying that price cuts are useless? Yeah....Great logic there!

How much MS is losing by giving the arcade+2paddle+GTA4+PGR4+Halo3 for 205 euros ??? 

  • Nothing. The X360 has been a profitable machine for quite some time, and it's very doubtful that selling at that price actually cost Microsoft money. MS has been making money on every machine sold....And despite the Euro price drop, H&E sales are still in the black.

 


 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

selnor on 10 June 2008
Bodhesatva said:

Any post that starts with "let's face it," as its primary means of evidenciary exposition is practically never worth my time. Also included are these:

"Let's be honest"
"Just face it"
"Only [Xbox/PS/Nintendo] Fanboys would deny that..."

I'm pretty tired of the notion that the PS3 is some slumbering behemoth on the verge of waking up and rampaging to dominance; it clearly isn't what is happening and there's no empirical evidence to suggest it will.

Back in reality, the PS3 is selling slightly better than the 360 overall, and the Wii is creaming both of them in all three territories. It's entirely possible, if not likely, that the PS3 will eventually outsell the 360 worldwide; but it will do so exactly as it is doing now, by slowly catching up. If that's the difference between a system with "potential to grow its userbase" and one that is incapable of growth, you have some pretty funny definitions.

It's like those weeks in America or Europe where the 360 beats the PS3 by 10% sales, and people say "360 is dominating the PS3!" Come on, guys. They're basically mirror images of each other now, both in terms of library and in terms of sales. It will take the PS3 years to catch up at the rate it's been going -- literally years. I'll use my favorite terms again to point out the absurdity of this argument:

PS3 is dominating second place!
PS3 will command all the marketshare not taken by its competitors!
PS3 will completely outsell everything except the systems that sell more than it!

 

 This is the single and only post in this thread which is realistic. The only one that makes sense and has any proof to back it up. All the rest have no proof or substances. 100% agree with this post. :)^ 

 



CrazzyMan on 10 June 2008

Despite the 360 having below 5% now, it doesn't seem to of changed sales patterns.

I don`t think, THAT people are confident in THAT, and even 5% is still every 20th. =)
That compared to 0.2% on PS3. =)

Using fanboy "but the games are coming to PC" drivel is useless.
Gears of Wars
Viva Pinata
Mass Effect
Everyone knows, that
Fable 2  will come to PC.
Gears 2 will come to PC.

MUCH more people would buy x360, if these games would stay exclusive.
Because you would need to buy x360, to PLAY THESE games.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a huge list of games that failed to move hardware

Europe PS3:
80-85k on average per week.
After GT5P and GTA4 releases:
100-110k on average per week.
Now, after MGS4 it will again spike to maybe 130k on average per week. =)

x360 needed a pricecut to go from 50k to 70k (with GTA4 release), PS3 just had 2 games.

Americans are waiting for 80GB model and MGS4. Sales will spike.
Japanese need more Japan oriented games.

Saying that a half-dozen games on the Playstation 3 are going to "break" the 360, and the usefulness of a pricecut are entirely wishful thinking from a person that so desperately wishes the Playstation 3 wasn't so far behind in 3rd place.

Just a PROLOGUE of GT5 sold over 1 mln. in Europe.
PS2 gamers will buy ps3 for MGS4, FFXIII, GT5, that for SURE.



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

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Dno on 10 June 2008
Staude said:
mrstickball said:
Deep analysis if your a Sony fan....Not if your an analyst.

The issue is that any game system, given the right conditions can re-emerge as a solid contender, or die off.

There is still far too much of this generation left, and much more can, and will be done to change the landscape of how the end plays out (regardless, I see the Wii being #1, PS3 being #2 and X360 being #3, but by how much, is a very big margin).

The issue is, as much as Sony fans want to claim, the PS3 was on life support, until Sony made a smart move and dropped the price to such a low level, that fans would buy the system.

On the other hand, Microsoft has not done that. Their price drops have been very little in it's biggest market, the US. We've already seen in Europe that an aggressive price drop.

Xbox 360 in Other Last Year: 22,433 Units/Wk (June 9th)
Xbox 360 in Other This Year: 72,548 Units/Wk (June 7th)

Do you see the difference in sales, or not? It's hard to say that a system has limited, failing potential when it's sales are roughly 200% higher year over year in a rather large region. Because of this legitimate, hard data, I don't see how you can say the 360 is falling by the wayside, when it's obviously been a decent condender.

Having said this, the 360's future is in it's own hands, not Sonys. If Microsoft decided that it wanted to beat Sony (easily, I might add), a Euro-style price drop to $199 USD for the Arcade, and $279 for the Pro would bolster sales for the rest of the year. If Sony failed to drop the price and hurt their bottom line deeply, the 360 would keep a strong lead until the next generation device came out.

Crazzy - Your exactly right. If Sony drops the PS3 to $299 Euro or $299 USD, you would see a huge increase in sales. But the 360 is the same way. Dropping it's price in the US will have the same, huge, emboldening effect.


So again, your crazy to think that the 360 has seen all of it's potential. When you have a product that has had very small price cuts over it's lifespan, yet still having decent sales, it still has life. The 360 could easily raise to 200,000 Units/Wk when the 360 drops its price in the US. But of course, we can merely speculate about the future of the 360 and PS3. Regardless though, it will take smart moves by either company. But at any rate, the PS3 is still behind the 360 by a large margin, and the 360 (I feel) has the potential to make a few, easy, moves to castrate the PS3 until it decides to take another hit on the price and lose more money, or do something else of the sorts.

 you can get a 360 for almost half of a ps3 around here.. Yet the ps3 still sells more.. now comon !.. it's even cheaper than the wii !


yea i agree if you think the 360 can or will sell more then the ps3 your a fanboy.



Slimebeast on 10 June 2008
mrduckbear said:

Look at the PS3 in Japan, yes it's not so good now, but it has potential to grow it's userbase and compete competitively with the Wii even if it does take a long ass time to get there. It's only 3 million short of Wii's total, while the 360 is nearly 4.5 million short.

 


Nice spin. Trying to make the PS3 look good by comparing with a console you're calling dead.

Japanese sales in 2008 so far:

ConsoleWiiPS3
Japan
1,303,323
361,861

The Wii is outselling the PS3 4:1.



Lord_Yggdrassil on 10 June 2008

"Microsoft had their chance to be the next "PS2""

No they didn't. And anyone thinking that is silly.

How do you go from Xbox to PS2? roffle. 360 is a huge improvement over xbox.



---

libellule on 10 June 2008
mrstickball said:
mrstickball said:
 

 

mrstickball said:


==> so low level ?
it is only a 100$ price drop  and the system entry price is still way beyond the average casual pocket ...
[/quote]
  • And the 360 could drop the price $100 before the PS3 could, and have the same desired effect, Lil. The 360 is still beyond the casual pocket too. So it's hard to understand how lowering the X360's price in it's

 ==> the fact is that, in Europe so far, there was a good price drop and the effect was all but similar despite the overstrong advertising campaign.

And yes, the Xbox360 is cheaper than the PS3 : u can get arcade for 300$ in USA and 200 euros in Europe and the Premium for 269 euros in Europe (only). If we consider the Wii, 250$/euros, can be bought by casual (and it is) then the same apply to the Xbox360.

 


==> let's do this for the PS3 which has no special offer except the poor GTA4 bundle ...

last year : 25k
this year : 90k

no need to comment ... 

 

  • And this goes to show exactly how critical price drops are. The PS3 emerged very strong due to a price drop. Guess what? We can safely assume that when the PS3 drops price, it'll sell better. The same goes for the 360. Difference is, the 360 has had a much smaller price drop, thereforehas more to gain.

==> Again,

The last PS3 price drop is 8 months old and was about -100$/euros. When u consider PS3 sales year to year, u understand the PS3 is selling very well despite the last price drop is 8 month old and the price is still very high (+400 $/euros)

The last Xbox360 price drop is 3 months old (about) and was about -80euros AND there is still an offer that allow u to get the arcade and plenty of AAA titles for 200 euros. Let's wait until july and the Xbox360 weekly sales in PAL may be back to 50k-60k ...
 

Of course, a price drop in NA will have a better/longer effect, that ,I agree with you.


Do you see the difference in sales, or not? It's hard to say that a system has limited, failing potential when it's sales are roughly 200% higher year over year in a rather large region JUST AFTER AN IMPORTANT PRICE CUT. Because of this legitimate, hard data, I don't see how you can say the 360 is falling by the wayside, when it's obviously been a decent condender.

[/quote]

  • The pice cut happened what? 4 months ago? If it was going to be  random bump in sales, it would of stopped selling like it has months ago...But it's remained at the 70,000 level for nearly 4 months now. That's not a small difference, it's establishing a new sales trend. Exactly like what the PS3 has done.

 ==> sorry it is only 3 months ago (14 march) and there was GTA4 release + special offer. Let's wait until the end of the special offer (15th june).

a new sales trend ??? from +45k to +55k ... If u say ...

 

==> no, because it beings to look "old" whatever it is truly old or not.
It is simply too late to drop the price, they had to be agreesive LAST year when they were on the rise ...
  • So your saying that price cuts are useless? Yeah....Great logic there!

 ==> useless ... no

but are they worth the money lost in the price drop ?

How much MS is losing by giving the arcade+2paddle+GTA4+PGR4+Halo3 for 205 euros ??? 

  • Nothing. The X360 has been a profitable machine for quite some time, and it's very doubtful that selling at that price actually cost Microsoft money. MS has been making money on every machine sold....And despite the Euro price drop, H&E sales are still in the black.

 ==> yes, because of Xbox live or games or the sku themselves ... the whole system is making money. YES, u are right. But that is not my point.

At the end, u can't deny they would make even more money without the price cut ?

This is my point. They have invested in this price drop and depending how the sales go at the end of July, we will see if they succeeded to reach an higher sales trend. To me, the global gain in SALES is minor compared to what the PS3 gained with her own price drop.


 


 



Time to Work !

JaggedSac on 10 June 2008

Who cares as long as I keep getting these balling ass games.