Fair enough.

While I'm quite an avid defender of MGS2's storytelling I must admit there are some unnecessary exposition in MGS4. The fact that Kojima makes up most of the story as he goes along unfortunately comes to show in GoP with an incessant amount of retcons and questionable plot direction decisions. Even before I had the chance to play it I said that this would be another love it or hate it game as was MGS2 and after experiencing the entire thing I'm convinced.

In the end it will boil down to personal preference whether you enjoy the storytelling style or not. Lot of comparisons have been made to MGS2 and there is certainly a similarity in how the story unfolds where it can be quite confusing requiring multiple playthroughs and contains a hefty amount of "preachy" monologues.

But it's more different in how things actually unfold, the amount of cameo's, side plots and pace of revelations as well as the obvious contrast between MGS2's loose plot and MGS4's answer focused narrative. The style is similar but the content is so different that you cannot draw a link between those who enjoyed MGS2 and those will will enjoy MGS4. The ending is also so contradictory in it's emotions that I think it will probably be the decidng factor in whether one enjoys the game or not.

What the....the ending doesnt focus on Snake!? Madness!

In part it does, in part it doesn't. The amount of characters involved smear out some of Snakes presence and Kojima seems to try too hard to throw every emotion known to man into a one hour epilogue. I think the most powerful conclusions are ones that can evoke a single but strong sense of feeling such as sadness, happiness, fear or whatever rather than snippets of each.

If I had to sum up the ending I would say 80% was brilliant but 20% was terribly cliche and unfitting. Of course that will be for everyone to decide for themselves and just from looking at the opinions of gamefaq users who have completed the game there seems to be as many opinions as there are members.

But it will definitely catch you off guard to say the least, whether that be good or bad is up for grabs. After having read about Kojima's original version of the ending though I wish he would have stayed with it and that extra 20% wouldn't ever have entered even the deepest recesses of his immagination.

I don't mean to detract from your expectationsm because overall the game is an amazing ride but it's ambitions are so great that it feels as if it cannot carry it with grace at some times.

Wow, another thread about this.

I appreciate that you get trought your sayings wuthout any major spoilers but you have to be careful,unfortunately I saw a major spoiler at one's mother fu%ke% comment at Kotaku in the forums,and that was really bad.

Anyway is good to see that you like very much the game.

Maybe these "90 minute cutscenes" are not considered "cutscenes" per se by Konami. Remeber there are certain cinematic sequences where you can interact in them, like exploring around with the Metal Gear MkII. There are certainly other interactive moments during cutscenes. Just maybe, Konami differentiates between these from the usual "sit idle-and-watch cutscenes".

i think it might be morea round the 75 minute(thats jsut guessing) mark not 90 but that still is long

So is this still GOY matterial?

That would be pretentious of me to say and it really depends on what comes during the second half of 2008.

For me, personally MGS4 is by far the best game of 2008 from where we are standing now. But my statement caries certain bias with it because I've been a huge MGS fan for many years. The storyline is awesome in both plot and scope eventhough it's too ambitious for it's own good (at times). In fact I'll go out on a limb here and say that MGS4 is perhaps one of the best if not the best game released during the second half of the decade.

As far as an "objective" guess on whether it will win GOTY with most publications I'd say no. The storyline is extremely bloated with as many characters, side and sub plots and references as all previous 3 games had combined. That can be a good thing but for many it will come off as simply convoluted, and quite frankly it is. The cutscenes are well and away longer than any in any of the previous games and the balance is a step back from MGS3. A lot of reviewers, especially the western mainstream will be put off by this. And Kojima doesn't hold back when it comes to his trademark "preaching" (though I am very happy for this) but the amount of indulgence weighs quite heavily. Though like I said a few posts above that while the plot really isn't in anyway similar to MGS2's, a lot of reviewers will compare the two and knock off on MGS4 for it's indulgence and convoluted plot.

My opinion though is that even people who disliked MGS2 may well turn out to be fans of MGS4 because the differences outweigh the similarities at large.

As far as gameplay goes, it has excellent gameplay (I mean it blows away everything previously in the franchise).  But when pitched against GTA4 that appeals to such a broader audiance and is so much more accessable I think GTA4 will have the edge. (My personal opinion is that it shits all over GTA4 though, the difference in sheer talent, creativity and love leave GTA4 as nothing more than toilet paper for Kojima to whipe his ass with)

The fact that no MGS game has previously won GoTY  weighs in on my opinion as well.

Sorry for the long-winded posts, I must have caught the Kojima syndrome today

 I was waiting for a response "Madness? THIS IS SPARTA" but it doesn't look like it's coming...

 Anyway on topic: What DTG posted is interesting, and raises ALOT of questions about the 90 minute cutscenes. Most obvious one is why a bunch of gaming publications would choose that amount of time in particular. Was it just a perception that they felt that certain cutscenes may as well have been 90 minutes because they were so long or were they actually 90 minutes and DTG lost track of time OR are they just spiting konami for putting the lockdown on these publications... 

From what DTG said, I can sorta guess the ending (or at least why he/she said there would be split views on it), and it's going to be pretty interesting to see how everyone takes the ending of this saga.

Thanks for the first hand info DTG and keeping it all spoiler free.

One way or another we'll all see the truth eventually.