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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Who is more likely to give Nintendo a run;next gen?Nintendo's demise?

Erik Aston said:
BengaBenga said:

People tend to "forget" that Nintendo always had very competitive hardware. WiiHD will probably be very close to what the competitors will release in terms of horsepower. The Wii was Nintendo's only possibility to survive even if sales totally failed. Nintendo is now a very healthy company with loads of money to spend on R&D. Besides that it WILL have the 3rd party support from the start next-gen. 3rd parties won't make the same mistake again. Besides with closer hardware specs 3rd parties don't even have to chose.

The casuals will of course be informed that every Wii game can be played on WiiHD, which will probably launch with WiiSports 2, which will have much better motion controls.
Sure Sony and Microsoft will try to catch the casual gamer, but that will be hard.
If Nintendo makes its next-gen consoles as strong as PS4, but at $250 AND Nintendo quality casual games I don't see how they can lose the next gen.

For more on this read Malstroms latest article. Even if you don't agree it's still a very interesting read on business strategies.


WiiHD? Wii Sports 2? I'm sorry, but Malstrom never said that's part of Nintendo's strategy. Because it isn't. There will be no WiiHD. There will be no Wii Sports 2.

I didn't say Malstrom said that. I meant: for more on disruption etc. see Malstroms latest article.
If you think the next Wii won't be HD I think you'll be surprised. Within 5 years HD televisions will be the normal TV's. HD will definitely be incorporated in Nintendo's next console, but it will be presented as something new. And probably for a part of Wii's audience it will be by that time.
Whether it will launch with WiiSports2 remains to be seen, but at least it will be something with the same philosophy. Cheap, Simple but very attractive.

And Nintendo will certainly not promote their next console by explaining that it plays the exact same games. "Hey, buy this new console because it plays old games!" Nintendo are about creating NEW experiences, if you haven't noticed.

Sure Nintendo will. If PS3 would have had complete BC it would have sold better. Wii will sell alot. If people can buy the new Wii, but have the idea that all the games they bought are still valuable, that's a big selling point. If all the people switch from Wii to the competitor they can't play WiiFit and WiiSports etc anymore.

And for Pete's sake, Nintendo aren't earning this money now simply to blow it on R&D for next gen. To some extent that's why they keep large cash reserves, but it isn't to develop a sustaining innovation like a graphical leap or improved motion control. That would be a SNES move or a PS2 move, and Nintendo are no longer looking for sustaining innovations like those.

Surely Nintendo won't "blow" all their money on R&D. But they have much more money to spend than probably ever before. If they spend it wise today they can benefit tomorrow. Don't forget that R&D doesn't need to be hardware only. They can also spend money to improve their production facilities, to be able to produce more efficiently in the future.

I'm not saying they won't add something completely new, but for the most part the new console will be an improved version of Wii.
Nintendo's core business also contains their main games. They are, despite the "revolution" of the Wii dependent on a "regular" game console that suits the Mario's and Zelda's. These core fans of Nintendo cannot be forgotten and they'll demand improvement in the visual department as well. 
If Wii continues like this, it will have a massive audience, which at a certain time will want something better.
Look at iPod. First a disruptive idea, after that sustaining your key advantages.

And one more thing... Wii wasn't Nintendo's "only possibility to survive." They had no debt, high profits and large cash reserves throughout the PS2 era. In fact, Sony vastly increased their first party development and introduced a handheld console as a desperate attempt to copy Nintendo's traditional advantages and get the same kind of stability and profitability. That's how good of shape Nintendo was in last gen.

Iwata said that Wii's "underpowered" specs were necessary to assure that Nintendo would survive even if the console was a complete disaster. Development for Wii was well underway when DS became the massive success it is now. Their low end risk assesment will probably have incorporated a PSP win on the handheld market.

Everything looks very fine for Nintendo now, but investors weren't very happy during the Gamecube days. Sure their financial managing has always been of an almost unparalleled level, but developing new hardware (console and handheld) and software requires high investments.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo would have rather released a console with a little more power, but couldn't take that gamble.


 



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Anyone saying that Sony and Microsoft will copy them next gen is dead wrong. They may introduce a cheaper price point cause of nintendo (which will result in worse system specs from the get-go...less ram...less features...shorter console lifespan... and is loss for all...thanks nintendo) but I don't see anyone releaseing a motion device as their primary controller. Maybe as a peripheral to capture some of that casual cash...

Nintendo has been playing catchup themselves since n64 and now with the wii they hit a gold mine which saved their ass but they are still behind in software development, hardware specs and variety of games. (first party)

Last time Nintendo was graphically on the cutting edge from a first party perspective was while Rare was still making games for them. Last time nintendo hired actors to give a first party title some voices was...was...help me out here. I don't think nintendo could make a good deathmatch FPS, horror game, action game, driving simulation game or an RPG to save their life. And now they don't have to bother as they got wii fit...

In any case, as long as there is kids, parents and grownups who like to replay games with characters from their childhood, nintendo has nothing to worry about as they will make loads of money. But its more likely Wii will copy 360 and ps3 next gen and give it HD and media capabilities than the other way around...and maybe with the piles of money they are getting from the wii, the will invest some decent cash in the next gen Zelda game and give it voice actors (not for Link as hes a mute :) ) and graphics that are dated to this time period.

Or maybe they will become a peripheral company and just make different types of game controllers for other systems as it seems thats what they do best nowadays.

So lets not praise nintendo for their dominance powers just yet...as they've only been in the sales lead position for 1 year in the last 10 years.



I would think if EA releases a console (even if its kinda crappy) they could easily become market leader by convincing all the sports nuts to buy the EA console (not to mention what other popular IP's they might buy before than).

If this doesn't happen, the Playstation brand is the only real competition (let's face it, MS will never have huge success in Japan and parts of EU)



*bleu-ocelot* said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:
*bleu-ocelot* said:
Cheebee said:
Right. Okay.
Well, erm, in that case... I'd have absolutely no idea. No way to tell. Who's to say Nintendo won't be market leader again?

 

Its about speculation."Who's to say Nintendo wont be last in the market?"Going by past trends of Playstation domination,i see this thread as a great discussion on the matter.

Going by past trends, two generations of domination seems to be where it ends. So who really is to say Nintendo will not lead next generation and then a paradigm shift?


 Because their are factors that affected the Playstation's growth this generation.


1) Wrong use of "there" in that sentence.

2) Did you ignore the whole of my post? Companies seem to lead for two full generation cycles. Why is it unreasonable for someone to guess that this may well happen again?



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largedarryl said:
I would think if EA releases a console (even if its kinda crappy) they could easily become market leader by convincing all the sports nuts to buy the EA console (not to mention what other popular IP's they might buy before than).

If this doesn't happen, the Playstation brand is the only real competition (let's face it, MS will never have huge success in Japan and parts of EU)

Nope, most of the sports licences require EA to make the game for all the big consoles. So it can never release a exclusive FIFA for example.

@disolute:

1. Windwaker was graphically very strong. You may not like the style, but in terms of graphics it was awesome. Mario Galaxy and Metroid 3 were also amazing.  Don't act so immature as if every Nintendo game lacks graphical power.

2. I think that Monolith can make a very decent RPG. And the other examples are also very childish. I bet that Epic couldn't make a good platformer. Every company has its specialty.

3. I agree that Twilight Princess could have been better. It still way better than most of the HD games though.

4. Your peripheral argument is just plain sad. Wii is winning. Get over it.

 



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BengaBenga said:
largedarryl said:
I would think if EA releases a console (even if its kinda crappy) they could easily become market leader by convincing all the sports nuts to buy the EA console (not to mention what other popular IP's they might buy before than).

If this doesn't happen, the Playstation brand is the only real competition (let's face it, MS will never have huge success in Japan and parts of EU)

Nope, most of the sports licences require EA to make the game for all the big consoles. So it can never release a exclusive FIFA for example.

@disolute:

1. Windwaker was graphically very strong. You may not like the style, but in terms of graphics it was awesome. Mario Galaxy and Metroid 3 were also amazing.  Don't act so immature as if every Nintendo game lacks graphical power.

2. I think that Monolith can make a very decent RPG. And the other examples are also very childish. I bet that Epic couldn't make a good platformer. Every company has its specialty.

3. I agree that Twilight Princess could have been better. It still way better than most of the HD games though.

4. Your peripheral argument is just plain sad. Wii is winning. Get over it.

 


1. All those games look nice...but all those games are far form the cutting edge of the industry. This was what I was saying...I didn't say the games nitnendo makes look like ass but that they are not on the industry's A-list anymore. Its cutting edge on what Wii can do for sure and maybe they could do better if wii had more juice...but its not like nintendo's gamecube games were tearing up the graphics front despite being more powerful than a ps2.

2. Why is it sad? Take wii mote out of the picture and what do you have left for the wii that screems market dominance?



disolitude said:

Anyone saying that Sony and Microsoft will copy them next gen is dead wrong. They may introduce a cheaper price point cause of nintendo (which will result in worse system specs from the get-go...less ram...less features...shorter console lifespan... and is loss for all...thanks nintendo) but I don't see anyone releaseing a motion device as their primary controller. Maybe as a peripheral to capture some of that casual cash...

Nintendo has been playing catchup themselves since n64 and now with the wii they hit a gold mine which saved their ass but they are still behind in software development, hardware specs and variety of games. (first party)

Last time Nintendo was graphically on the cutting edge from a first party perspective was while Rare was still making games for them. Last time nintendo hired actors to give a first party title some voices was...was...help me out here. I don't think nintendo could make a good deathmatch FPS, horror game, action game, driving simulation game or an RPG to save their life. And now they don't have to bother as they got wii fit...

In any case, as long as there is kids, parents and grownups who like to replay games with characters from their childhood, nintendo has nothing to worry about as they will make loads of money. But its more likely Wii will copy 360 and ps3 next gen and give it HD and media capabilities than the other way around...and maybe with the piles of money they are getting from the wii, the will invest some decent cash in the next gen Zelda game and give it voice actors (not for Link as hes a mute :) ) and graphics that are dated to this time period.

Or maybe they will become a peripheral company and just make different types of game controllers for other systems as it seems thats what they do best nowadays.

So lets not praise nintendo for their dominance powers just yet...as they've only been in the sales lead position for 1 year in the last 10 years.


I (completely) disagree ...

Sony and Microsoft may not produce a Wiimote which is as simple and intuitive as Nintendo has, and they may make the nunchuck attachment (more or less) the standard set-up, but what Nintendo has done will certainly be copied in some form of another.

Consider (for a moment) that 90% of all uses for the right analogue stick are for manipulating screen-space in a way which is far better suited to the pointing functionality on the Wiimote. Buttons are also a limiting factor in how interactive an environment can be because there are only so many actions you can map to buttons, and the use of these actions is not intuitive. In the future games are only going to be more interactive and (as a gamer) if I'm playing a starwars game as a jedi I want to be able to quickly select a crate and throw it across the room in a simple intuitive way with a high level of accruacy, I don't want to have to carefully navigate for 5 seconds using an analogue stick try to remember which button is the hurl button and then try to clumsily trow the object to where I want it using the analogue stick.



disolitude said:

Nintendo has been playing catchup themselves since n64 and now with the wii they hit a gold mine which saved their ass but they are still behind in software development, hardware specs and variety of games. (first party)



Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

 

Don't underestimate Nintendo. They continue to dominate in profit and game quality despite having to create casual games, which always get scored poorly, and despite being significantly behind in the sales race(gamecube) or severely supply constrained(Wii).

Also, Nintendo has what I consider the most diverse software lineups from one company with Metroid Prime, Mario, Zelda, and Fire Emblem to name a few.

Perhaps you mean the Wii console specifically, from a 3rd party perspective, because you couldnt' include the DS in any argument that has anything to do with having a poor or non-diverse library.

 

Once again, talking points against Nintendo are usually dead wrong, and Nintendo haters are proven wrong time and time again, it's just the way of things. 

 



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

HappySqurriel said:
disolitude said:

Anyone saying that Sony and Microsoft will copy them next gen is dead wrong. They may introduce a cheaper price point cause of nintendo (which will result in worse system specs from the get-go...less ram...less features...shorter console lifespan... and is loss for all...thanks nintendo) but I don't see anyone releaseing a motion device as their primary controller. Maybe as a peripheral to capture some of that casual cash...

Nintendo has been playing catchup themselves since n64 and now with the wii they hit a gold mine which saved their ass but they are still behind in software development, hardware specs and variety of games. (first party)

Last time Nintendo was graphically on the cutting edge from a first party perspective was while Rare was still making games for them. Last time nintendo hired actors to give a first party title some voices was...was...help me out here. I don't think nintendo could make a good deathmatch FPS, horror game, action game, driving simulation game or an RPG to save their life. And now they don't have to bother as they got wii fit...

In any case, as long as there is kids, parents and grownups who like to replay games with characters from their childhood, nintendo has nothing to worry about as they will make loads of money. But its more likely Wii will copy 360 and ps3 next gen and give it HD and media capabilities than the other way around...and maybe with the piles of money they are getting from the wii, the will invest some decent cash in the next gen Zelda game and give it voice actors (not for Link as hes a mute :) ) and graphics that are dated to this time period.

Or maybe they will become a peripheral company and just make different types of game controllers for other systems as it seems thats what they do best nowadays.

So lets not praise nintendo for their dominance powers just yet...as they've only been in the sales lead position for 1 year in the last 10 years.


I (completely) disagree ...

Sony and Microsoft may not produce a Wiimote which is as simple and intuitive as Nintendo has, and they may make the nunchuck attachment (more or less) the standard set-up, but what Nintendo has done will certainly be copied in some form of another.

Consider (for a moment) that 90% of all uses for the right analogue stick are for manipulating screen-space in a way which is far better suited to the pointing functionality on the Wiimote. Buttons are also a limiting factor in how interactive an environment can be because there are only so many actions you can map to buttons, and the use of these actions is not intuitive. In the future games are only going to be more interactive and (as a gamer) if I'm playing a starwars game as a jedi I want to be able to quickly select a crate and throw it across the room in a simple intuitive way with a high level of accruacy, I don't want to have to carefully navigate for 5 seconds using an analogue stick try to remember which button is the hurl button and then try to clumsily trow the object to where I want it using the analogue stick.

 

I see what you are saying and I really would like the wii mote to work for me.

But it just doesn't...I was playing Boom Blox the other day and I threw the controller against the wall out of frustration. It is way too imprecise and gimmicky...meaning you have to learn how to use it in every game. It doesn't have a practical implication...meaning that if you throw hardest...you will throw hardest using the wii mote in boom blox for example.

I'm hoping next gen wii mote has dual nunchuck analog sticks for one...and a targeting device on your head or something similar...or that it is just more advance and sensitive to real life applications. Maybe 4 sensors around the room...

As far as your star wars point...this would be AMAZING. If Wii mote could to this it would be king...but its not going to work precise as that... I will bet any money on that. You can't provide technology like that...and have it be precise and cutting edge...for 249 and still make profit on a console.



Let me just reitterate, Disolitude, when you say that Nintendo first party games are lacking in diversity?

 

Nintendo first party genres this gen so far:

Zelda: Action/Adventure

Mario: Platforming

Mario Kart: Racing

Super Paper Mario: JRPG/ARPG

Fire Emblem: SRPG

Metroid Prime 3: FPS/FPA

Wii Sports: Casual/Sim

Wii Fit: Sim

Smash Brothers Brawl: Fighting

Warioware: Minigame 

Soon to come 

Disaster: Day of Crysis: Survival Horror

Icarus: Flight/Shooter?

Pikmin: RTS

 

Name another developer with as diverse a library of titles in a 2 year timeframe as these. There isn't one. I mean, it's just amazing how diverse their library is, I can't believe you said their first party lineup isn't diverse, lol. What the hell man?

 



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.