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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MGS4 to have 90 minute long cutscenes?

Profcrab said:
DTG said:

I suppose that depends on whether you consider Kojima a visionary game designer/artist or not. Those who do would agree that his long and complex methods of storytelling are ingenius and integral to what he is trying to achieve. Those who consider his storytelling bad would obviously be upset, but I think the huge fanbase of the franchise and huge fanbase of MGS2 alone validates him as more than a terrible writer. There have been numerous essays written on his games, if you read them perhaps it will help you see the depth his games actually have. Many non hardcore fans of the series mistake his storytelling as simply being for entertainment value yet taking itself too seriously, but in actuality there is an enormous amount of research, meaning and depth that goes into giving his plots a layered message.

I respect that many may disagree with that, but nonetheless it doesn't invalidate my and others opinions about him being a brilliant writer.


You don't have to go very far to find a large group of people that find a large amount of anime stories to be visionary and genious.  People have a habit of mistaking complexity for art and depth (I think Rocketpig is fond of saying this).  What makes Kojima a bad story teller is that he has to tell you all of his ideas.  He can't work them in.  At some points, his characters literally spout philosphy.  This is where he fails.  There are no layers to the message.  Layers come when the actions of the characters and the decisions they make are left up to the viewer/player/reader to explain.  Kojima can't do that though.  Artistic media doesn't tell you why, it asks you why.

Don't bring up the huge fanbase argument.  Dane Cook has a huge fanbase and if I hear someone compare him to Richard Pryor then someone needs to die. 


Another mistake a lot of people make is they assume something has to be long in order for it to be meaningful ... In fact, I think this is the standard mistake that is made when a movie is trying to win awards.

 

Beyond this, I think that there is a matter of preference that I suppose many of us will have to accept ... I personally prefer it when the storyteller hints at something and trusts us to be smart enough to pick up on it while other people like to be spoon-fed everything.



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You can pause them! That's my only issue with long cutscenes. If somebody walks in in the middle of them they're usually ruined.



Words Of Wisdom said:
Torillian said:
Words Of Wisdom said:

Also, a lot of people (including myself) want to see more work done on the in-game models so that it's not painful to go back to the game after a cutscene.

But as I've read MGS4 uses the ingame engine for its cutscenes, so you shouldn't have to worry about the difference in game models for this particular case.

For the other issues, well then just skip over it, if all you want is to play the game. I have no problems with that and don't really mind if people hate cutscenes, but badmouthing a game for having cutscenes, when it is clearly what the fans of the series wanted, seems pointless. If you want to make MGS4 without cutscenes and piss off all the MGS fans, be my guest.


Neat.  I'm expecting more from this generation than past ones in that area.  It was just a nitpick of mine to go with the current theme of problems with cutscenes.

I don't mind people who hate cutscenes.  I don't mind people who love cutscenes.  I like a balanced approach where the developer regards cutscenes as a tool to improve the game and not mindless filler or use in order to tell the story of the movie they wished they'd made.

Also, I could make a game like MGS4 however I choose not to.


 All MGS games, even the original, used in-game cutscenes.



Wait, this has been proven false? I only read the first few posts of the thread.



makingmusic476 said:
Wait, this has been proven false? I only read the first few posts of the thread.

We have one dodgy source contradicting another dodgy source.  Take your pick of who to believe.



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.:Dark Prince:. said:
@Darth

not really, Kojima is already thinking about MGS5 lol.

 No. It's already been confirmed that this is the last Metal Gear Solid Game

 

http://kotaku.com/gaming/e307/metal-gear-solid-4-is-ps3-exclusive-+-last-in-series-277361.php



EHSTEVE said:
.:Dark Prince:. said:
@Darth

not really, Kojima is already thinking about MGS5 lol.

No. It's already been confirmed that this is the last Metal Gear Solid Game

 

http://kotaku.com/gaming/e307/metal-gear-solid-4-is-ps3-exclusive-+-last-in-series-277361.php


And then it was unconfirmed:

http://kotaku.com/5010401/kojima-is-thinking-about-metal-gear-solid-5



DTG said:


You haven't played Planescape, have you? It does explain immortality, it's implications, and goes into depth for it; only the developers tried to show it naturally, and not convoluted (which is what MGS2 was like). In the beginning it is explained roughly (or rather, naturally) the immortality of the Nameless One. the player then will experience death, rebirth, loss of identity, immortality; and he will see the impact of the Nameless One's past, who he was, what he did, the evidences he left. The sporadic gain of memories from past lifes will leave the player wondering more about him, without ever having his questions fully answered.

 

Yes I have played the game, but your point about it explaining immortality through the gameplay sequence of death and rebirth was false.The game actually explained immortality through pages and pages of vast dialogue. It baffles me that you would even mention Planescape as a game that has compact storytelling presented through its gameplay when it has the largest script ever written for a video game.

Not having fully answered its questions isn't a demonstration of good storytelling. Hell, MGS2 had more loose ends than any game out there. It's simply a style of storytelling not a matter of quality.

 

 

 

 


 DTG, did you see my previous post about about pointing NPC interaction as a viable way to integrate the story into the gameplay? No matter how big the game's script is (btw, Planescape's writing is divine), if it's used through NPC Interaction then it's already inside the gameplay, more so when it's games that have choices/consequences. Planescape has almost all of it's story (well, most of it) inside the gameplay by default. 

And sometimes the the best way to explain something is to experience it. That is basic pathology, teachers always use exercises, after explaining the thesis to the students, to demonstrate it. This would let the students better absorb the information given. Same thing for games with complex stories. 

This is not the case of MGS2 or MGS4. They exclusively use non-interactive scenes to tell the story, and that is just wrong when it's story-heavy games. It does not give the player anything playable and worst of all, it's storytelling is convoluted and not simple enough in many parts, leaving some people mind-**cked.



Words Of Wisdom said:
shio said:

Kotor 2 is widely recognized as having a much better story, characters and interaction than Kotor 1. The first 75% of the game is much superior than Kotor 1. The last 25% weren't good (except that last talk with Kreia) because of time constraints: Obsidian only had 12 months to make the game!

But a much better example of Obsidian's superiority is Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer, which has THE best narrative in an RPG since Planescape: Torment.


Widely perceived as better by who? The only thing KotOR2 improved on was the general flow of combat.

The characters were not that much better at all. Heck, when I first saw Carth I was like "Hey it's Atton!" and then he introduced himself as Carth. I was like, "Wait, what?"

You see, I had the distinct pleasure of playing Knights of the Old Republic 2 BEFORE the original. Which means I was able to enjoy KotOR2 quite a bit and it was indeed a good game. Upon playing the original KotOR, I kept getting the "Been there, done that" feeling and I slowly realized that almost every game element minus maybe Kreia had been borrowed from the original.

The "Surprise, you're Revan!" plot was lame in both though.

Kotor 2 is better percieved by hardcore RPG fans, and I concur. This reminds me of a thread about this a few weeks ago on Gaf, and Kotor 2 then was talked as being the best by most.

Both games have many bland characters, but Kreia was one of the best characters I've ever seen. Her ideologies were consistant from beginning to the end, and the reasons she gave for the story twist baffled me, not only by being unexpected but because it also made so much sense.

Anyway, both are nowhere near as good as Baldur's Gate 2.

 EDIT: let's just agree we disagree



shio said:

Kotor 2 is better percieved by hardcore RPG fans, and I concur. This reminds me of a thread about this a few weeks ago on Gaf, and Kotor 2 then was talked as being the best by most.

Both games have many bland characters, but Kreia was one of the best characters I've ever seen. Her ideologies were consistant from beginning to the end, and the reasons she gave for the story twist baffled me, not only by being unexpected but because it also made so much sense.

Anyway, both are nowhere near as good as Baldur's Gate 2.

EDIT: let's just agree we disagree


Meh, strip out all the concepts in KotOR2 that were stolen from the original and you have Kreia and a few other things. And Kreia annoyed the living daylights out of me.  I played the darkside on my first playthrough just to hopefully get a chance to cut her in half with a lightsaber somewhere along the way.

And yes BG2 was awesome.  Mazzy Fentan fan forever!

Agreed.  ^_^