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Forums - Gaming - MGS4 to have 90 minute long cutscenes?

Profcrab on 23 May 2008
Torillian said:
rocketpig said:
Torillian said:
y'know though....some people really enjoy cut scenes and would prefer not to see them go extinct just because some of you guys deem it beneath you. Hell I watched tons of Xenosaga without playing, and I loved it.

The point isn't that they should go away, the point is that taking up half of an interactive game with them is unacceptable in this day and age. Technology has improved to the point where engine-based scenes that allow player interaction are becoming the norm and are actually moving the industry forward in ways that movies could never do.


But what you find unacceptable, I'm actually looking forward to. If you don't want a bunch of cutscenes in your games then I have no issue with that, and suggest you don't play MGS, but just because you can do something differently doesn't mean you should. As long as there are people like me who look forward to these types of games and actually enjoy them, then there will be a market for these cutscene heavy games and you won't see them die off.

 

Hell I don't see this as much worse than your average RPG, and it'll probably have more involved gameplay than most turnbased RPG's.

 

You make like it, but it's still bad storytelling for an action game.  JRPGs are generally the haven for the heavy cutscene crowd.  In fact, most of any JRPG is repetitive gameplay for which you are rewarded with a cutscene.  With action games, story is generally told more in game than in cutscenes.  Since the players spend more time interacting with the environment, there are greater opportunites for integrated story telling.  MGS is using the JRPG model for an action game which is actually a few steps backwards in the genre.



Thank god for the disable signatures option.

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bbsin on 23 May 2008
Profcrab said:
Torillian said:
rocketpig said:
Torillian said:
y'know though....some people really enjoy cut scenes and would prefer not to see them go extinct just because some of you guys deem it beneath you. Hell I watched tons of Xenosaga without playing, and I loved it.

The point isn't that they should go away, the point is that taking up half of an interactive game with them is unacceptable in this day and age. Technology has improved to the point where engine-based scenes that allow player interaction are becoming the norm and are actually moving the industry forward in ways that movies could never do.


But what you find unacceptable, I'm actually looking forward to. If you don't want a bunch of cutscenes in your games then I have no issue with that, and suggest you don't play MGS, but just because you can do something differently doesn't mean you should. As long as there are people like me who look forward to these types of games and actually enjoy them, then there will be a market for these cutscene heavy games and you won't see them die off.

 

Hell I don't see this as much worse than your average RPG, and it'll probably have more involved gameplay than most turnbased RPG's.

 

You make like it, but it's still bad storytelling for an action game. JRPGs are generally the haven for the heavy cutscene crowd. In fact, most of any JRPG is repetitive gameplay for which you are rewarded with a cutscene. With action games, story is generally told more in game than in cutscenes. Since the players spend more time interacting with the environment, there are greater opportunites for integrated story telling. MGS is using the JRPG model for an action game which is actually a few steps backwards in the genre.


Yeah because games like RE4, Haze and GeOW have awesome story telling models. I fail to see how else Kojima can end all the story arcs and questions that were continued from Metal Gear 1 to MGS3 being that this is the last game with Solid Snake without writing a novel to explain the back stories.... oh wait, then Kojima would be copying Bioware wouldn't he?



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Zkuq on 23 May 2008

Has any of you ever heard of a thing called preference? Some people don't mind cutscenes, even long ones. Some people hate them. Some people don't care about story at all. This is all about opinions. At least the cutscenes should be good ones (an opinion again).

And what's with your 'interactive storytelling' anyway? Often this interactivity means being able to move around in a closed room or something like that. That's good to you? At least I don't like it. This kind of interactive telling isn't good, some other is. Besides, many games of this sort, in my opinion, fail to create a good atmosphere which is very important as is a good story.



rocketpig on 23 May 2008
Torillian said:
rocketpig said:
Torillian said:
y'know though....some people really enjoy cut scenes and would prefer not to see them go extinct just because some of you guys deem it beneath you. Hell I watched tons of Xenosaga without playing, and I loved it.

The point isn't that they should go away, the point is that taking up half of an interactive game with them is unacceptable in this day and age. Technology has improved to the point where engine-based scenes that allow player interaction are becoming the norm and are actually moving the industry forward in ways that movies could never do.


But what you find unacceptable, I'm actually looking forward to. If you don't want a bunch of cutscenes in your games then I have no issue with that, and suggest you don't play MGS, but just because you can do something differently doesn't mean you should. As long as there are people like me who look forward to these types of games and actually enjoy them, then there will be a market for these cutscene heavy games and you won't see them die off.

Hell I don't see this as much worse than your average RPG, and it'll probably have more involved gameplay than most turnbased RPG's.

The big difference in turnbased RPGs is that to involve the player in a scene, it would completely disjoint the gameplay. RPGs aren't very immersive because of this and are enjoyed in a different level. Action games are different. The player is more immersed in the environment and it makes more sense to add another layer of immersion with interactivity and limited cutscenes.

Besides, it's not like I'm the only one who feels this way. Kojima's budgets for these games have continued to skyrocket and MGS sales have continued to dwindle with each installment. I chalk that up to western developers like BioWare and Rockstar taking more advantage of the medium and frankly, they're leaving developers like Kojima Productions in their wake.




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Kasz216 on 23 May 2008
bbsin said:
twesterm said:
bbsin said:
jake_the_fake1 said:
Am I the only one looking forward to watching these movie like cut scenes?

Well being that the people that are bashing MGS4 based on the cutscenes alone are either really skeptical for MGS4, know for a fact that the cutscenes CAN be SKIPPED or don't even own a PS3 (and probably never will). I think it's safe to say the answer is NO, I for one enjoy the MGS cinematics (except in Twin Snakes when Snake was acting as a cyborg ninja) especially if they are supposed to answer all the questions.


Believe me, it's not because I'm already skeptical of MGS that I think 90 min cut scenes are crap. Any game with 90 minute cut scenes is just inexcusable and I'm not going to waste my time with it.

The fact that they can be skipped doesn't do much for me either because then I miss the story. Don't confuse the fact that I don't want to watch a full length movie while playing my game with I don't care about the story in the given game.


Well, being that you'll be upset if you skip the story, I'm assuming that you've also sat through the other MGS games when you had to sit through very lengthy cutscenes and codec conversations aswell? Being that Kojima is trying to end all the story arcs that deals with Solid Snake and Big Boss in this one game, how else do you (and Rocketpig) expect kojima to get it done? Should we expect a novel instead? I will agree with you that the cutscenes are far too long only if it's mainly filled with pointless crap scenes rather than explaination of WTF has been going on for the last decade. The worse part of all of this is that the same people that disagree with some of the high MGS4 reviews are eating this 90 minute cutsceneS claim like they've seen it for themselves. If people can sit through Lost Odyssey's 20 hours of cutscenes then MGS4 shouldn't be hard.


 He could add in more gameplay to spread out the cutscenes. 



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Profcrab on 23 May 2008
bbsin said:
twesterm said:
bbsin said:
jake_the_fake1 said:
Am I the only one looking forward to watching these movie like cut scenes?

Well being that the people that are bashing MGS4 based on the cutscenes alone are either really skeptical for MGS4, know for a fact that the cutscenes CAN be SKIPPED or don't even own a PS3 (and probably never will). I think it's safe to say the answer is NO, I for one enjoy the MGS cinematics (except in Twin Snakes when Snake was acting as a cyborg ninja) especially if they are supposed to answer all the questions.


Believe me, it's not because I'm already skeptical of MGS that I think 90 min cut scenes are crap. Any game with 90 minute cut scenes is just inexcusable and I'm not going to waste my time with it.

The fact that they can be skipped doesn't do much for me either because then I miss the story. Don't confuse the fact that I don't want to watch a full length movie while playing my game with I don't care about the story in the given game.


Well, being that you'll be upset if you skip the story, I'm assuming that you've also sat through the other MGS games when you had to sit through very lengthy cutscenes and codec conversations aswell? Being that Kojima is trying to end all the story arcs that deals with Solid Snake and Big Boss in this one game, how else do you (and Rocketpig) expect kojima to get it done? Should we expect a novel instead? I will agree with you that the cutscenes are far too long only if it's mainly filled with pointless crap scenes rather than explaination of WTF has been going on for the last decade. The worse part of all of this is that the same people that disagree with some of the high MGS4 reviews are eating this 90 minute cutsceneS claim like they've seen it for themselves. If people can sit through Lost Odyssey's 20 hours of cutscenes then MGS4 shouldn't be hard.


 You are assuming that just because Kojima has not demonstrated the ability to handle his overcomplex story, that it is impossible.  The reality is that Kojima is just not capable doing it without cutscenes whereas other developers do not us the cutscene crutch that often to tell stories in action games.  It is entirely possible to for a great MGS game to exist with virtually no cutscenes.  Stop making excuses for why Kojima can't do it.



Thank god for the disable signatures option.

rocketpig on 23 May 2008
bbsin said:
Profcrab said:
Torillian said:
rocketpig said:
Torillian said:
y'know though....some people really enjoy cut scenes and would prefer not to see them go extinct just because some of you guys deem it beneath you. Hell I watched tons of Xenosaga without playing, and I loved it.

The point isn't that they should go away, the point is that taking up half of an interactive game with them is unacceptable in this day and age. Technology has improved to the point where engine-based scenes that allow player interaction are becoming the norm and are actually moving the industry forward in ways that movies could never do.


But what you find unacceptable, I'm actually looking forward to. If you don't want a bunch of cutscenes in your games then I have no issue with that, and suggest you don't play MGS, but just because you can do something differently doesn't mean you should. As long as there are people like me who look forward to these types of games and actually enjoy them, then there will be a market for these cutscene heavy games and you won't see them die off.

 

Hell I don't see this as much worse than your average RPG, and it'll probably have more involved gameplay than most turnbased RPG's.

 

You make like it, but it's still bad storytelling for an action game. JRPGs are generally the haven for the heavy cutscene crowd. In fact, most of any JRPG is repetitive gameplay for which you are rewarded with a cutscene. With action games, story is generally told more in game than in cutscenes. Since the players spend more time interacting with the environment, there are greater opportunites for integrated story telling. MGS is using the JRPG model for an action game which is actually a few steps backwards in the genre.


Yeah because games like RE4, Haze and GeOW have awesome story telling models. I fail to see how else Kojima can end all the story arcs and questions that were continued from Metal Gear 1 to MGS3 being that this is the last game with Solid Snake without writing a novel to explain the back stories.


Wow, way to pick out three games not known for their story or even worse, bashed openly for it.




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bbsin on 23 May 2008
rocketpig said:
bbsin said:
Profcrab said:
Torillian said:
rocketpig said:
Torillian said:
y'know though....some people really enjoy cut scenes and would prefer not to see them go extinct just because some of you guys deem it beneath you. Hell I watched tons of Xenosaga without playing, and I loved it.

The point isn't that they should go away, the point is that taking up half of an interactive game with them is unacceptable in this day and age. Technology has improved to the point where engine-based scenes that allow player interaction are becoming the norm and are actually moving the industry forward in ways that movies could never do.


But what you find unacceptable, I'm actually looking forward to. If you don't want a bunch of cutscenes in your games then I have no issue with that, and suggest you don't play MGS, but just because you can do something differently doesn't mean you should. As long as there are people like me who look forward to these types of games and actually enjoy them, then there will be a market for these cutscene heavy games and you won't see them die off.

 

Hell I don't see this as much worse than your average RPG, and it'll probably have more involved gameplay than most turnbased RPG's.

 

You make like it, but it's still bad storytelling for an action game. JRPGs are generally the haven for the heavy cutscene crowd. In fact, most of any JRPG is repetitive gameplay for which you are rewarded with a cutscene. With action games, story is generally told more in game than in cutscenes. Since the players spend more time interacting with the environment, there are greater opportunites for integrated story telling. MGS is using the JRPG model for an action game which is actually a few steps backwards in the genre.


Yeah because games like RE4, Haze and GeOW have awesome story telling models. I fail to see how else Kojima can end all the story arcs and questions that were continued from Metal Gear 1 to MGS3 being that this is the last game with Solid Snake without writing a novel to explain the back stories.


Wow, way to pick out three games not known for their story or even worse, bashed openly for it.


Pick some games FOR me then.. either way, I could probably fire back with more games in the action genre that has awful story telling, proving how far the genre has really gone in terms of telling a story.



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rocketpig on 23 May 2008

Mass Effect for starters in this generation. Even Oblivion, though I hated the game, avoided cutscenes. Splinter Cell 1 & 3 even did a decent job of telling a somewhat intriguing story with very few cutscenes.

On the other hand, you have games like SotC which told an amazing story in an amazing environment without a lick of dialogue and no cutscenes IIRC.




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Kasz216 on 23 May 2008
Words Of Wisdom said:
Torillian said:

Hell I don't see this as much worse than your average RPG, and it'll probably have more involved gameplay than most turnbased RPG's.


There is more to gameplay than the amount of time spent mashing the controller. You know this right?


 Also... in RPGS cutscenes are usually know more then 1/10th the expierence.   RPGs despite having lots of cutscenes actually tend to have a lot more "gamplay vs cutscenes".  

What RPGs have nearly as much cutscense vs Gameplay as MGS4 is reported to have?