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Forums - General - President of Gambia plans to kill off every single homosexual

HappySqurriel on 20 May 2008

Just to play devils advocate on the Church vs. State nature of marriage ...

Until King Henry the 8th renounced Catholicism and created the Anglican Church in order to divorce his wife marriage was the exclusive domain of the church; you could say that from the very begining the state took control of the institution of marriage in order to destroy it.

Now, an important question to ask is "why does the state have any right to say who can or can not be married?" Seriously, how does it benefit you to have the state say that you are or are not married? The legal implications of marriage are already covered by common-law unions in many states and countries, and could even be covered by joint property contracts and other contracts that would not attempt to force you into any particular definition of marriage; in this way people who choose to live in any form of alternative lifestyle can still share all of the rights of marriage without having to fight to have the definition changed.



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The Ghost of RubangB on 20 May 2008
HappySqurriel said:

Just to play devils advocate on the Church vs. State nature of marriage ...

Until King Henry the 8th renounced Catholicism and created the Anglican Church in order to divorce his wife marriage was the exclusive domain of the church; you could say that from the very begining the state took control of the institution of marriage in order to destroy it.

Now, an important question to ask is "why does the state have any right to say who can or can not be married?" Seriously, how does it benefit you to have the state say that you are or are not married? The legal implications of marriage are already covered by common-law unions in many states and countries, and could even be covered by joint property contracts and other contracts that would not attempt to force you into any particular definition of marriage; in this way people who choose to live in any form of alternative lifestyle can still share all of the rights of marriage without having to fight to have the definition changed.


It's simply not equal rights.  Straight people just get married.  Gay people now need all kinds of joint property contracts and wills and blah blah blah, all kinds of legal hoops to jump through, just for being born different.  Now if religions want to be bigoted as all hell and give certain people more hoops, that's fine.  The law isn't supposed to do that.



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HappySqurriel on 20 May 2008
The Ghost of RubangB said:
HappySqurriel said:

Just to play devils advocate on the Church vs. State nature of marriage ...

Until King Henry the 8th renounced Catholicism and created the Anglican Church in order to divorce his wife marriage was the exclusive domain of the church; you could say that from the very begining the state took control of the institution of marriage in order to destroy it.

Now, an important question to ask is "why does the state have any right to say who can or can not be married?" Seriously, how does it benefit you to have the state say that you are or are not married? The legal implications of marriage are already covered by common-law unions in many states and countries, and could even be covered by joint property contracts and other contracts that would not attempt to force you into any particular definition of marriage; in this way people who choose to live in any form of alternative lifestyle can still share all of the rights of marriage without having to fight to have the definition changed.


It's simply not equal rights.  Straight people just get married.  Gay people now need all kinds of joint property contracts and wills and blah blah blah, all kinds of legal hoops to jump through, just for being born different.  Now if religions want to be bigoted as all hell and give certain people more hoops, that's fine.  The law isn't supposed to do that.


I was asking why anyone should be married by the government ... how is that not inherantly equal?



Kasz216 on 20 May 2008
Grey Acumen said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
mesoteto said:
ohh i dont think we should do anything to them, well other then not letting them get married* , i have always taken the stance that you do what you want a long as you dont threaten me or my family


*the marriage thing is only b/c its a religious thing, i am all for them having equal government rights, but the act of marring someone is a matter for god not man

Marriage is a government thing too. There are over one thousand laws with the word "marriage" in them. To deny anybody marriage is to fuck them over in over a thousand ways.

You and your church don't have to recognize them, but the law absolutely has to.


See, this I don't have any problem with, but that's not a marriage. When it's done by the government alone, it's a civil union. If you're going to try to use laws having the term "marriage" in them as the excuse, then that's really off base, because religion was there first, and marriage only was used in the laws because religion set the standards.

Also, for those arguing that it's equal rights, I think any guy, whether gay or straight, should be allowed to marry any woman, whether gay or straight, so I'm hardly being unequal about the matter. I don't want to deny anyone the ability to marry, but the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman.

I've got no problems with a homosexual couple being recognized legally, but I do think that there needs to be a clear line drawn that it is only legally and that no religion is in any way bound to observe this union. Seperation of church and state goes BOTH ways, thank you very much. In that respect, I fully support gay civil unions, but not gay marriage.

 


What if some church wants to marry gay people? Like a Unitarian Church. Those guys will do anything.  Also, while you can attribute "marriage" to the catholic church.  It's not like it was a europeon invention.  Europeon name sure... but plenty of other people got married all over the world just with different names.



fkusumot on 20 May 2008
HappySqurriel said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
 

It's simply not equal rights. Straight people just get married. Gay people now need all kinds of joint property contracts and wills and blah blah blah, all kinds of legal hoops to jump through, just for being born different. Now if religions want to be bigoted as all hell and give certain people more hoops, that's fine. The law isn't supposed to do that.


I was asking why anyone should be married by the government ... how is that not inherantly equal?


The government (state government in the US) issues marriage licenses. They issue all kinds of licenses. Uhm... I'm not sure what your question is exactly. I'm not following your train of thought here. Help me out HappySqurriel.

 

Kasz216 said:

What if some church wants to marry gay people? Like a Unitarian Church. Those guys will do anything.  Also, while you can attribute "marriage" to the catholic church.  It's not like it was a europeon invention.  Europeon name sure... but plenty of other people got married all over the world just with different names.

Well, almost anything. 



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Aj_habfan on 20 May 2008

What if it was only once and you were really drunk?



coolestguyever on 20 May 2008

well i think its a little harsh killing them. I don't blame him for kicking them out of the country though.



rocketpig on 20 May 2008
Aj_habfan said:
What if it was only once and you were really drunk?

If you were in college, you're okay. Everything is okay in college, except maybe being Republican.

But killing people? Aw, go for it. Have a good time, kiddo. 




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Grey Acumen on 21 May 2008
The Ghost of RubangB said:
HappySqurriel said:

Just to play devils advocate on the Church vs. State nature of marriage ...

Until King Henry the 8th renounced Catholicism and created the Anglican Church in order to divorce his wife marriage was the exclusive domain of the church; you could say that from the very begining the state took control of the institution of marriage in order to destroy it.

Now, an important question to ask is "why does the state have any right to say who can or can not be married?" Seriously, how does it benefit you to have the state say that you are or are not married? The legal implications of marriage are already covered by common-law unions in many states and countries, and could even be covered by joint property contracts and other contracts that would not attempt to force you into any particular definition of marriage; in this way people who choose to live in any form of alternative lifestyle can still share all of the rights of marriage without having to fight to have the definition changed.


It's simply not equal rights. Straight people just get married. Gay people now need all kinds of joint property contracts and wills and blah blah blah, all kinds of legal hoops to jump through, just for being born different. Now if religions want to be bigoted as all hell and give certain people more hoops, that's fine. The law isn't supposed to do that.

Actually, as I pointed out before, there's nothing restricting gay people from getting married. If a gay man and a gay woman want to get married to each other, they can do that. heck, even a straight man and a straight woman don't have to like each other to get married. However marriage has been defined as a union between a man and a woman.

It's like saying "well, I have a right to bear arms under the constitution, but instead of that meaning to own weapons, I want it to mean owning illegal drugs"

Sorry, but that's basically what it boils down to. I can get married to any woman I want(provided she okays it), but if I didn't find a woman I liked, I could either get married to a woman I didn't like, or not get married at all. A gay man has the same choices I do.

 

 



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mesoteto on 21 May 2008

i agree with you Grey, you can have all the legal rights you want except to call it a marriage b/c its not

it would be like me trying to give you an apple when you wanted and banana, but since they are both fruits its okay