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Forums - Sales - How M$ could win, at least in NA.

SaviorX said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
rocketpig said:
In some ways, MS has already "won". Thanks to Nintendo, Sony is seriously weakened throughout the world. Now MS can concentrate on profit and try to expand their market in every region, which appears to be happening. The 360 should finish with no less than 35-40m sales, up considerably from the Xbox and its 25m userbase.

MS will also be launching first again next generation, giving them the ability to correct their mistakes from this generation and try to expand their market again.

In the short term, though, there is little to be gained from them throwing money at the problem to weaken an already weak Sony when they can sit back and try to turn a profit on the 360. No matter what they do, the PS3 will probably end up passing the 360 in WW sales anyway.

You don't take into account that the sacrifices Sony did to make PS3 ahead of its times will pay in the long term giving the console a longer life, while OTOH Nintendo will have to release a Wii2 with HD as soon as HD TVs will become commonplace: obviously, given the huge success of Wii and the low cost the necessary components will have in a few years, Nintendo won't be hurted at all by this, but nevertheless Sony will have all the time it needs to build a long term success for PS3 and we know that game developers appreciate long term thinking, as it lets them acquire experience on the platform better and make it pay longer. This is also one of the reasons, besides higher profitability, that makes Sony keep on producing PS2s, it says to developers "our platforms have a long life and make your investments on them pay for more years", while MS killing XBox 1 after only three years and a half was a big slap on their face, besides on its own.


I doubt the "Wii2" will be released when HDTVs are more common. You mentioned the PS2 still selling. Don't you think the Wii will sell similarly to the PS2? No one is certain as to when HDTV will be cheap and accessible, as for my opinion, probably a few months after TV goes digital in February 2009.


I agree about HDTV and Wii selling well also on it, like PS2 is still selling well and sold very, very well until recently, but just right Sony did with PSOne and PS2 and after with PS2 and PS3, Nintendo will have to prepare Wii successor before the elder starts declining, also because instant success like Wii's one isn't guaranteed, Nintendo could find itself struggling to build Wii2's success just like it happened to Sony with PS3.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


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thx1139 said:
Reasonable said:
thx1139 said:
@reasonable

Just look at the chart a few posts up to see profit/loss for the last 10 years.

lol - skimmed that thinking it was a sig of some Windows error screen dump or something similar.

Ok $ 2B profit - not bad but clearly total currently horribly mangled by PS3 costs, they should be close to Nintendo in total profits.  MS - wow - still way in the red, 360 might garner best additional revenue but MS is gonna need years of that to see a penny (or dime) of overall profit from their little adventure in Videogame land... no wonder you pay for Live.

 Nintedo = money machine...

 


Do you realize that Windows took nearly 10 years to become viable.  MS unlike most of the companies in the US is very long term thinking. They make investments that take a decade or more to become profitable.

It is also version 3 of product that people believe MS really hits the Home Run.


I was working at Ministry of Defense in UK when first PCs arrived in UK with DOS... so indeed I do remember Windows 3 when it took off.  Funnily enough when Windows 3 hit I was working for a SW company and IBM had to pay us to even bother with OS2 because Windows took of so well.

While I don't doubt their long term view and success, there's always been more than a bit of luck associated with MS success IMHO.  I still love IBM's initial forecast for PC sales, and the fact that OS2 was a better OS than Windows but had no chance to overtake it.

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Imperial said:
rocketpig said:
Imperial said:
rocketpig said:
In some ways, MS has already "won". Thanks to Nintendo, Sony is seriously weakened throughout the world. Now MS can concentrate on profit and try to expand their market in every region, which appears to be happening. The 360 should finish with no less than 35-40m sales, up considerably from the Xbox and its 25m userbase.

MS will also be launching first again next generation, giving them the ability to correct their mistakes from this generation and try to expand their market again.

In the short term, though, there is little to be gained from them throwing money at the problem to weaken an already weak Sony when they can sit back and try to turn a profit on the 360. No matter what they do, the PS3 will probably end up passing the 360 in WW sales anyway.

rocketpig , you consistently proove yourself to be an MS fanboy , many of your posts are riddled with bias and incosistencies.

Firslty MS hasn't "won" anything it's quite on the contrary , MS stand to loose the most from this generation ( in terms of profitability) . Where have you got the Idea that Sony are seriously "weakened" like the PS3 is the only console affected by the release of the Nintendo Wii.

The only thing MS can concentrate is avoiding irrelevancy with it being outsold on a WW basis week by week since Janauary , Japan's interest still at an absolute minimum and the PS3's strongest line-up of software since launch.

If MS launch again first it'll no dought damage consumer confidence in the 360 , receive poor software support due to the high costs many developers will experience with new technology , hardware , software , trainning obligations etc. Also taking into consideration it'll damage MS's profitability further if the 360 doesn't have a decent life.

What are you talking about an already weak Sony ? , Your coudln't be referring to the PSP that sold more than 20X the number of 360's in japan could you ? or the PS2 that continues selling like crazy years after it's launch ? or maybe the PS3 that's outselling the 360 on a weekly basis ?


Oy. If you don't think Sony has been weakened this generation, you need to take off the blinders. Nintendo has supplanted Sony as the dominant console of this generation and the Wii is walking away with previously Sony marketshare. Before the PS3, Sony had created two home consoles and annihilated the competition with both of them, especially in Europe. Now, they're fighting Microsoft for a distant second place behind the Wii.

Considering how Sony is much more of a threat to Microsoft than Nintendo is, Microsoft can't be that unhappy at their market position. Sure, they would prefer to be first but considering how badly they screwed up the 360, they're in a good position to enter the market in 2010 or 2011 with a new console and improved marketshare.

As for profitibility, I don't think MS is in the worst shape this generation. Sony is continuing to lose money on their gaming division while MS has pulled in ~$900m in the last fiscal year.

And who is talking about the PSP here? I was pretty sure this thread was about home consoles. It wasn't even part of my argument.

But, go ahead and call me a fanboy if it makes you feel better.


I don't like your use of the term "weakened" it's slightly confusing and too psuedo but anyway. Yes Sony's competetivness has been severley limited due to the success of the Wii but that's beside the point i'm not disputing that , the way you posted it I interprited it as being the Wii "weakening" the PS3 to the extent that the 360 got some sort of advantage from it , hence my saying that " like the PS3 is the only console affected by the release of the Nintendo Wii".

Your completley changing your tone , from "MS has already "won" to "How badly they screwed up the 360". You keep on fogetting that market share means very little in an industry where profitability is the only thing that'll get you anywher, like I said before if MS want to make any money of the 360 then an early launch of the 720 is out of the question.

Think again , with the $7 billion MS lost on the 360 900million is lauphable , it's far easier for Sony to make a profit on the PS3 than it is for MS to for the 360 also taking into consideration that PS3 helps HDTV sales( although not neccaserily Sony's HDTV's ) and was the key reason why sony won the format war.

"to weaken an already weak Sony" it's incredibly confusing when you talk about Sony ( responsible for the PS3,PS2,PSP ) as opposed to talking about the individual products considering that's how most people do it , MS is only responsible for the 360 so it beats typing XBOX360 or 360 because "MS" is two letters.

FANBOY , FANBOY , FANBOY * Breathe * Fanboy , Fanboy , Fanboy.... it does.

 

 


I find it hard to take anyone seriously how has a big honkin' SDF banner in their sig.

RocketPig, FTW. 



I read as far as
"an HD console below Wii price (arcade), and a full model close to Wii price could really make an impact over the summer and then holidays."

Then I lol'd

Look at europe, the price cut which took the arcade below the wii price did nothing

Massive price cuts would reinforce the opinion of many that the 360 is failing and will soon be replaced



TheBigFatJ said:
rocketpig said:

Oy. If you don't think Sony has been weakened this generation, you need to take off the blinders. Nintendo has supplanted Sony as the dominant console of this generation and the Wii is walking away with previously Sony marketshare. Before the PS3, Sony had created two home consoles and annihilated the competition with both of them, especially in Europe. Now, they're fighting Microsoft for a distant second place behind the Wii.

Considering how Sony is much more of a threat to Microsoft than Nintendo is, Microsoft can't be that unhappy at their market position. Sure, they would prefer to be first but considering how badly they screwed up the 360, they're in a good position to enter the market in 2010 or 2011 with a new console and improved marketshare.

As for profitibility, I don't think MS is in the worst shape this generation. Sony is continuing to lose money on their gaming division while MS has pulled in ~$900m in the last fiscal year.

And who is talking about the PSP here? I was pretty sure this thread was about home consoles. It wasn't even part of my argument.

But, go ahead and call me a fanboy if it makes you feel better.


Rocketpig - 1

Imperial - 0

It amazes me that Sony can be losing money on their gaming division despite the PS2 being a profit machine and the PSP finally starting to gain some good traction. Those two devices are certainly bringing in very big profits.


 Yeah , but the PS3 is gaining ground to , and that destroys every profit they make :(



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scottie said:
I read as far as
"an HD console below Wii price (arcade), and a full model close to Wii price could really make an impact over the summer and then holidays."

Then I lol'd

Look at europe, the price cut which took the arcade below the wii price did nothing

Massive price cuts would reinforce the opinion of many that the 360 is failing and will soon be replaced

Well, I agree it will not do anything to the Wii. However the 360 has much more clout in NA than it does in "Others". So a cheaper 360 could have an impact against the rising growth of the PS3 in NA. And an aggressive Greatest Hits would need to come in play as well. Why buy Bioshock for $60 on the PS3 when you can get the 360 Greatest Hits or midline version for $19.99 or $29.99? I think PS3 will win the race for second in Japan & Others handsdown. But the 360 could still take 2nd in NA, and that move could determine if they could still secure 2nd place WW, or be 3rd in all regions.

 



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Dragon007 said:
Kasz216 said:
Imperial said:
rocketpig said:
In some ways, MS has already "won". Thanks to Nintendo, Sony is seriously weakened throughout the world. Now MS can concentrate on profit and try to expand their market in every region, which appears to be happening. The 360 should finish with no less than 35-40m sales, up considerably from the Xbox and its 25m userbase.

MS will also be launching first again next generation, giving them the ability to correct their mistakes from this generation and try to expand their market again.

In the short term, though, there is little to be gained from them throwing money at the problem to weaken an already weak Sony when they can sit back and try to turn a profit on the 360. No matter what they do, the PS3 will probably end up passing the 360 in WW sales anyway.

rocketpig , you consistently proove yourself to be an MS fanboy , many of your posts are riddled with bias and incosistencies.

Firslty MS hasn't "won" anything it's quite on the contrary , MS stand to loose the most from this generation ( in terms of profitability) . Where have you got the Idea that Sony are seriously "weakened" like the PS3 is the only console affected by the release of the Nintendo Wii.

The only thing MS can concentrate is avoiding irrelevancy with it being outsold on a WW basis week by week since Janauary , Japan's interest still at an absolute minimum and the PS3's strongest line-up of software since launch.

If MS launch again first it'll no dought damage consumer confidence in the 360 , receive poor software support due to the high costs many developers will experience with new technology , hardware , software , trainning obligations etc. Also taking into consideration it'll damage MS's profitability further if the 360 doesn't have a decent life.

What are you talking about an already weak Sony ? , Your coudln't be referring to the PSP that sold more than 20X the number of 360's in japan could you ? or the PS2 that continues selling like crazy years after it's launch ? or maybe the PS3 that's outselling the 360 on a weekly basis ?


You don't get it. Microsoft didn't get into the videogame wars to win. They got into the videogame wars to take Sony out of the number 1 spot because they were afraid of Sony trying to monopolize the living room by making an entertainment hub... well like the PS3... but with a few more bells and whistles, as Microsoft believes such a roll should be played by Media PCs.

Would Microsoft like to be in first? Yeah, why not. However i'm sure they're happy with Nintendo being first who just wants to "make games" and won't try to conquerer the living room.


Yep, and Sony entered the industry to get revenge on Nintendo.

That's no excuse. They all want to be number 1, and you're either a winner or a loser.

And Microsoft are certainly losing.


Because they wanted revenge? Or was it that they spent so much time and money on R&D on the PS1 that it seemed wasteful to not enter the market?



montrealsoon said:
Kasz216 said:
Imperial said:
rocketpig said:



You don't get it. Microsoft didn't get into the videogame wars to win.


Sounds like MS doesn't "get it" either as they had a press release this week about what happens as a result of being first to ten million. Or perhaps, MS speaks for MS better than the fans?

 


Cause a company is going to say "We're only here to screw the other guyz!! Buy our product!"

Tell you what, why do you think companies pay electronics stores like Best Buy to sell generic Zip drives for cheap? Plenty of companys do this sort of thing, and they never say they are doing it to hurt the other guy.

It would kinda defeat the purpose... "buy this Xbox's instead of Playstations because... it will help us by stalling the living room entertainment hub until we get our PC solution ready."

Not the best marketing. 



Kasz216 said:
montrealsoon said:
Kasz216 said:
Imperial said:
rocketpig said:



You don't get it. Microsoft didn't get into the videogame wars to win.


Sounds like MS doesn't "get it" either as they had a press release this week about what happens as a result of being first to ten million. Or perhaps, MS speaks for MS better than the fans?

 


Cause a company is going to say "We're only here to screw the other guyz!! Buy our product!"

Tell you what, why do you think companies pay electronics stores like Best Buy to sell generic Zip drives for cheap? Plenty of companys do this sort of thing, and they never say they are doing it to hurt the other guy.

It would kinda defeat the purpose... "buy this Xbox's instead of Playstations because... it will help us by stalling the living room entertainment hub until we get our PC solution ready."

Not the best marketing.

 

Or perhaps, MS speaks for MS better than the fans?

 

 



As someone, including Kasz216, suggested, MS kept on whacking the beehive and now Sony could really be pissed off, and as Nintendo conquered the first place in the pure gaming market, they could really try harder to seize the living room with PS3, and MS simply isn't ready for this, neither with Windows, that is still too complicated for the task, nor with XBox 360, that's going quite well in games, but lost the non interactive entertainment train betting on the wrong HD optical drive format, while the vast majority of people won't have an internet connection fast enough for HD video still for a long time.
When Windows 7 come, even supposing it will be simple enough for the living room, HDTVs and BD will have already started taking off and PS3 will already be well established, so MS will be late to try getting a bit of this market it desired so much.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!