Forums - Gaming Discussion - Sony cry: Wii is Just "Impulse Purchase"

Kwaad said: sieanr said: The pointer isn't a fairy, but a star... Anyway, for Mario to be an astronaut he would have to fly a spaceship. But by your logic he's also a cosmonaut. Either way, your starting a stupid argument to try and marginalize a major title for the Wii. So what if his expand his character every now and then? After all it is a relatively cartoon like series, so sticking strictly to canon is irrelevant. By this same reasoning each new final fantasy is stupid because it's about different characters in a different world... And Gundam is ugly, even with it's simplistic environments it still can't run at a steady frame rate while "only" at 720p. But I guess desolate and empty must be an excuse to repeat the same texture every five feet, or to have tons of buildings that are indistinguishable from one another -- aka, make two 3d models of a house and use them to craft an entire city. Although if you mean that the original xbox can't come close to the zeon model, than I agree with you, however if your talking about the 360 than your off your rocker. Of course your the same person who claimed the gamecube had the worst graphics of last gen, so this isn't to shocking. Regardless, this entire argument is stupid. Genji looks amazing but is still god awful. Ridge Racer also looks great, but plays the exact same as RR3. Zelda has an amazing art style and attention to detail, but is a GC title with wii controls added at the last moment. Red steel is a half hearted attempt to cash in at launch. Give both systems some time before you can really do a fair comparison between games. Many people were saying the 360 looked indistinguishable from last gen, but now thats changed. The same will happen with the Wii's graphics like Gamecube, or the PS3 looking the same, or in some cases worst than 360.
I however, do expect games to not give me migranes. And I do expect to see 3d titles that look better than games for the N64.
Awww poor guy... so i suppose until PS3 was announced u were like SUFFERING from migranes eh? Awww damn! So PS3 should be given as a medicine... at least to you. God i just don't understand these people... we were once playing NES REMEMBER??? U should be dead by now... And u wanna tell me that Wii is worse in graphics than N64... HAHAHA! Anyway be happy with ur PS3 and if u see no games coming for it after a year or so go and sell it for 50$ to buy a N64 and then u should be ok... PS: U have ur opinion just keep it for you... i can imagine why u got fired... with all that mumbling... (and don't tell me that boss story i am not 10 years old ^^)




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Kwaad said: Second. Please send me a link to where the GC is faster in any regard to the PS2. Last time I checked... when I bought my GC. it was about 80% that of a PS2. and about half a X-Box.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2 Playstation 2 CPU 128-bit "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294 MHz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamecube Gamecube CPU PowerPC Gekko, 485 MHz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox X-box CPU 733 MHz Intel Pentium III So you say that 80% of 294MHz ~ 50% of 733MHz ~ 485MHz... What were you thinking about the last time you checked? The PS2 is not even half of a X-box! And about 60% of a Gamecube!



You can't compare mhz between these processors because their architecture is for the most part, completely different. It's comparing apples, oranges, and watermelons.



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.

vanguardian1 said: You can't compare mhz between these processors because their architecture is for the most part, completely different. It's comparing apples, oranges, and watermelons.
That's true. Some say that Gamecube has the best architecture ("perfect balance") but Xbox beats it with power. I really can't understand why some people claim PS2 is superior to GC. This is in fact the first time I've read someone making that claim. I mean, I like Wii the most of this gen consoles but I freely admit it has the worst hardware.



Wow...just wow, Kwaad. I don't even know what to say, except that you should thank the FSM that this forum isn't very big. I mean, you are pretty much 100% flat out wrong. You just don't know what the hell you're talking about. I can't believe you actually think you could come onto a forum even this big and get away with such blatant and obvious lies. The Xbox was the most powerful of the last-gen console, followed closely by the GC, and with PS2 a distant 3rd. I...I... I'm (almost) speechless. I mean, you're actually serious, aren't you? I could see this being some part of an elaborate joke, but somehow I know it isn't. I love VG Charts. I check it just about every day if I have time, and I'd really like this forum to get good, but as long as posters like you are given free reign to spew your bullshit all over it, I don't see that happening. Do me a favor. I am on the Ars Technica forums. Make yourself an account, and just copy and paste some of your posts from here to see the kind of response you deserve with this complete and utter bullshit.



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GameCube

Central Processing Unit 485 MHz IBM "Gekko" PowerPC CPU. * PowerPC 750CXe based core.[7] * 180 nm IBM copper-wire process. 43-mm² die. 4.9 W dissipation.[7] * Roughly 50 new vector instructions.[7] * 32-bit ALU. 64-bit FPU, usable as 2x32-bit SIMD[7] o 1.9Gflops on fpu(10Gflops means the whole unit in operations such as geometry engine, T&L, TEV and other, this number is not all on the cpu) * 64-bit enhanced PowerPC 60x front side bus to GPU/chipset. 162 MHz clock. 1.3 GB/s peak bandwidth.[7] * 64 KB L1 cache (32 KB I/32 KB D). 8-way associative. 256 KB on-die L2 cache. 2-way associative.[7] * 1125 DMIPS (dhrystone 2.1) [edit] System Memory 43 MB total non-unified RAM * 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM (codenamed "Splash") main system RAM. 324 MHz, 64-bit bus. 2.7 GB/s bandwidth.[7] * 3 MB embedded 1T-SRAM within "Flipper".[8] o Split into 1 MB texture buffer and 2 MB frame buffer.[8] o 10.4 GB/s texture bandwidth (peak). 7.6 GB/s framebuffer bandwidth (peak). ~6.2 ns latency.[7] * 16 MB DRAM used as buffer for DVD drive and audio. 81 MHz, 8-bit bus. 81 MB/s bandwidth.[7] [edit] Graphics Processing Unit and System Chipset 162 MHz "Flipper" LSI. 180 nm NEC EDRAM-compatible process. Co-developed by Nintendo and ArtX. * 4 pixel pipelines with 1 texture unit each[7] * TEV "Texture EnVironment" engine (similar to "pixel shader") [9][10] * Fixed-function hardware transform and lighting (T&L). 12+ million polygons/s in-game.[10] * 648 megapixels/second (162 MHz x 4 pipelines), 648 megatexels/second (648 MP x 1 texture units) (peak) o Peak triangle performance: 20,250,000 32pixel triangles/sec raw and with textures and lit * 8 texture layers per pass, texture compression, full scene anti-aliasing[10] * Bilinear, trilinear, and anisotropic texture filtering * Multi-texturing, bump mapping, reflection mapping, 24-bit z-buffer * 24-bit RGB / RGBA color depth. o Hardware limitations sometimes require a 6r+6g+6b+6a mode (18-bit color), resulting in color banding. * 640×480 interlaced or progressive scan * Integrated audio processor: Custom 81 MHz Macronix DSP o Instruction Memory: 8 KB RAM, 8 KB ROM o Data Memory: 8 KB RAM, 4 KB ROM o 64 channels 16-bit 48 KHz ADPCM[10] o Dolby Pro Logic II, AC3 signal through "digital out" with D-Terminal cable
PS2
* CPU: 128 bit "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294 MHz (299 Mhz on newer versions), 10.5 million transistors o System Memory: 32 MB Direct Rambus or RDRAM (note that some computers use this type of RAM) o Memory bus Bandwidth: 3.2 GB per second o Main processor: MIPS R5900 CPU core, 64 bit o Coprocessor: FPU (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator × 1, Floating Point Divider × 1) o Vector Units: VU0 and VU1 (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator × 9, Floating Point Divider × 1), 128 bit + VU0 used for physics and other gameplay type things + VU1 used for polygon transformations, lighting and other visual based calculations o Floating Point Performance: 6.2 GFLOPS (single precision 32-bit floating point) + FPU 0.64gflops + VU0 2.44gflops + VU1 3.08gflops o 3D CG Geometric Transformation: 66 million polygons/sec + 3D CG Geometric Tranformations under curved surfaces: 16 million polygons/sec o Compressed Image Decoder: MPEG-2 o I/O Processor interconnection: Remote Procedure Call over a serial link, DMA controller for bulk transfer o Cache memory: Instruction: 16KB, Data: 8KB + 16 KB (ScrP) * Graphics: "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147 MHz o Pixel pipelines:16 o Video output resolution: variable from 256x224 to 1280x1024 pixels o 4 MB Embedded DRAM video memory bandwith at 48GB per second (main system 32 MB can be dedicated into vram) o DRAM Bus bandwidth: 48.0GB per second + Texture buffer bandwith:9.6GB/sec + Frame buffer bandwith:38.4GB/sec o DRAM Bus width: 2560-bit (composed of three independent buses: 1024-bit write, 1024-bit read, 512-bit read/write) o Pixel Configuration: RGB:Alpha:Z Buffer (24:8, 15:1 for RGB, 16, 24, or 32-bit Z buffer) o Dedicated connection to: Main CPU and VU1 o Overall Pixel fillrate: 16x147 = 23.52Gpixel/sec(rounded to 2.4Gpixel/sec) o Pixel fillrate: with no texture, flat shaded 2.4(75,000,000 32pixel real-world triangles) o Pixel fillrate: with 1 full texture(Defuse Map), Gouraud shaded 1.2(37,750,000 32pixel real-world triangles) o Pixel fillrate: with 2 full textures(Defuse map + specular or alpha or other), Gouraud shaded 0.6(18,750,000 32pixel real-world triangles) o Multi-pass rendering ability + Four passes = 300M pixels/second (300M pixel/sec divided by 32pixel = 9,375,000 triangle/sec lossed every four passes) * Sound: "SPU1+SPU2" (SPU1 is actually the CPU clocked at 8 MHz) o Number of voices: 48 hardware channels of ADPCM on SPU2 plus software-mixed channels o Sampling Frequency: 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz (selectable) o Output: Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround sound, DTS (cutscenes only), later games achieved analog 5.1 surround during gameplay through Dolby Pro Logic II * I/O Processor o CPU Core: Original PlayStation CPU (MIPS R3000A clocked at 33.8688 MHz or 37.5 MHz) o Sub Bus: 32 Bit o Connection to: SPU and CD/DVD controller. * Interface Types: 2 proprietary PlayStation controller ports (250KHz clock for PS1 and 500KHz for PS2 controllers), 2 proprietary Memory Card slots using MagicGate encryption (250KHz for PS1 cards, up to 2MHz for PS2 cards), Expansion Bay (PCMCIA on early models for PCMCIA Network Adaptor and External Hard Disk Drive) DEV9 port for Network Adaptor, Modem and Internal Hard Disk Drive, IEEE 1394 (only in SCPH 10xxx - 3xxxx), Infrared remote control port (SCPH 5000x and newer),[15] and 2 USB 1.1 ports with an OHCI-compatible controller. * Disc Drive type: 24x (PlayStation 2 format CD-ROM, PlayStation format CD-ROM) 4x (Supported DVD formats) Region-locked with anti-copy protection (Can't read "Gold Discs" aka normal CD-ROMs) * Supported Disc Media: PlayStation 2 format CD-ROM, PlayStation format CD-ROM, Compact Disc Audio, PlayStation 2 format DVD-ROM (4.7 GB), DVD Video (4.7 GB). Later models are DVD-9 (8.5 GB Dual-Layer), DVD+RW, and DVD-RW compatible.
My numbers will read. 'item compared' GC : PS2 I dont have time. to do a bit for bit comparison. But looking at that. I'm haveing trouble finding anyway the GC is more powerful than a PS2. Besides a few select things. GF - thank you for posting the clock speed. The main CPU. 128bit "emotion" engine. vs the Gekko... is 64bit. Hmmm I'll take 128. Let's look at one of the most imporant things on the GFX chip now. Ability to render pixels. PS2 has Graphics: "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147 MHz. doing 16pixels/clock. GC has... 162 MHz "Flipper" LSI. running at. 4pixles/clock. Thank you. I'll take the PS2. So I'll take the PS2's processor, and graphics card for the best... wich leaves... the PS2 as the definate winner.



PSN ID: Kwaad


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vanguardian1 said: You can't compare mhz between these processors because their architecture is for the most part, completely different. It's comparing apples, oranges, and watermelons.
Even if the architectures are different, I don't think the Gekko microprocessor takes more than twice as many clock cycles than the PS2 to make the same machine language instructions. Specially when PowerPCs are RISC microprocessors, which means they have a reduced set of instructions to increase performance. Yulegoat, you are right in that the Wii has the worst hardware... graphic wise. But gameplay wise it has the best. The controller is part of the hardware, right? Kwaad - You have no idea about what you are talking about. I don't think you even know what a bit is. Your posts look more like a desperate means to convince yourself that the console you prefer is the best than a serious and fundamented opinion.



You're picking a few select pieces out of a whole puzzle, Kwaad. Put'em back and look at the whole overall picture. ;) Those numbers are at most relevant when dealing with the same architecture, the bigger the differences in architecture, the worse it is to compare them on those merits alone. Example : The Gamecube has a far better cache-design system on the processor as well as a better memory setup overall (Rambus had a lot of bandwidth BUT HORRIBLE LATENCY). I'm not a pro at this, but I've been reading about processors/chipsets/graphics cards long enough to know a decent amount of stuff, and you're simply not considering enough factors.



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.

Beleive what you want. http://cube.ign.com/articles/086/086984p1.html Look at what developers have to say. *shrug* Straight power easily gotten. GC wins. Optmized power... PS2 wins by a landslide. So for a Port. GC wins. (however if I'm not mistaken most multiplatform games were PS2 > X-box/cube. As the cube's bruteforce power, and X-Box's brute force power, can do it. While the PS2 has to be optimized. I fell the most imporant thing on a game console is optimization/results. Meaning a optimized PS2 can pull almost as much power as a x-box. And the Cube has a little more than the PS2.. (un-optimized) However if you make a game, and you dont optimize at all... you should stop makeing games. That is one reason I'm so intrested in the PS3's end result power. It's CPU is capable of so much more than anything else. Optimized for the PS3, can yeild probibally 2 or 3x power of the 360. When the best looking last gen game, looks better than anything I've ever seen on the Wii. That tells me the PS2 has more power/ability than a un-optimized Wii. However, a Wii is already optimized, as it runs a glorifyed GC chipset. Meaning it's just a fast GameCube. The Wii is GameCube2.0 Because of that, the Wii is already close to it's high end graphics. (except psycho optimized games like RE4) And Nintendo does not optimize as good as Capcom did RE4. ;0 The most imporant thing on a console are the games. Even beyond the hardware. Everyone admits that. Also, Looking up hardware specs on the Gamecube makes me laugh. because everyone said the same thing about the GameCube. 'It's gonna beat the PS2, it will at least take a good market share.' All I have to say is... ROFL 20million is one hell of a market share. VG charts dosent show x-box. But compared to the PS2... that is under 20% market share... ONLY agianst the PS2. Oh well. History repeats itself. :)



PSN ID: Kwaad


I fly this flag in victory!

Essentially the article you linked says that the processor power is about even, with the exception of the gamecube being significantly easier to program for, and the gamecube has a easier to use graphical setup that supports higher texture quality than the PS2.



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.