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Forums - PC Discussion - EA's anti piracy screwing up PC Mass Effect.

ZenfoldorVGI said:
naznatips said:
 

Ugh, I wasn't even going to respond to this level of ignorance, but it's too annoying to leave sitting there. First, I hate when people arbitrarily space out everything in their posts. It makes it impossible to read. Second, respect has to be earned, and posts like this are nowhere near helping you earn mine.

First of all, PC gaming is not in a decline. Not even close. There are many men far more knowledgeable than you who agree with me.

Did you ever notice the only people complaining about PC piracy are those who don't have their games on Steam? Kinda funny how that works. Epic hasn't bitched about it once since they joined. Of course that could also be because UT3's console sales were pathetic compared to the PC sales. In fact, they even mentioned in an interview on Gametrailers that they'd seen amazing success on Steam.

Crysis sold 1 million units in 3 months on PC as a super-high system requirements game. This is without digital distribution. That's far faster than any other game that's pushed tech has sold in the past. Which is kinda sad, because Crysis is a pretty shitty game, but that's beside the point.

NPD reported there were about 268 million games sold in 2007. About 36 million were PC games. 154 million were consoles. Let's just divide that number into fourths for the PS2, Wii, PS3, and 360. That's 38.5 million per console.

PC games, which are signifficnatly cheaper to develop than HD console games, sold almost the same amount in retail alone as each console would have individually. This isn't counting the hugely successful digital distrubtion market. Steam has more than 15 million active subscribers. People who log in often.

Many companies who don't have Steam sell their games over their websites or over other digital services like Gametap. Sins of a Solar Empire did amazing just from website sales according to their devs. Call of Duty 4 has topped sales on Steam almost every day since its release. Not to mention publishers make an estimated 2-3 times the amount per unit sold on Steam versus retail.

All this, and the US isn't even the PC's strongest market. It's nowhere near as big as Korea and Europe. Tell people in Korea that the PC market is dying and they'll just laugh at you and go play Starcraft. Oh, and you said small-name games don't have success? Take a look at audiosurf, Sam & Max, Popcap games, and the thousands of indie projects out there.

 

Now that we've talked about sales, let's talk about the gamers themselves. Xbox Live is the biggest place for online gaming right? Hah! Xbox Live has had 10 people even connect to it in its lifetime. Maybe 1/3 of those actually pay for a gold account to play online. Steam has more than 15 million active subscribers. Steam is by its very nature a totally free online gaming service, and it's just one in a dozen! There is Gametap, X-Fire, Gas Powered Games, EANation, Battle.net, many others for individual games, and that's not even counting 20 million plus active MMORPG accounts.

Online gaming is miniscule on consoles. No, I should say it's inconsequential compared to the PC market. PC is the place for online gaming, for competitive gaming, for FPS and RTS gaming, for indie games, and for anyone willing to use Steam to get their game out there. A well-built PC can outlast a console generation with nothing but a new graphics card every couple years. A smart PC gamer waits till a new generation starts (or a year after) to upgrade his rig.

Then you say PC gaming has no casuals. Have you never heard of Popcap games? They shipped 5 million copies of Bejeweled without a single unit showing up on NPD. The Sims? Peggle? Casual gaming thrives on PCs because they don't have high system reqs.

PC gaming provides more services, has more online gamers, and has equal sales to individual console sales. All of this with cheaper games, better (and free) online services, and digital distribution services that make XBL, PSN, and WiiWare look like jokes. It is a haven for hardcore and casual gamers, and it is a market that only grows as digital distribution and internet connectivity becomes stronger.

Dying? Please, don't spread that ignorant bs on these forums.


Naz, come on man. You banned me for a week and I didn't even use a personal insults like you just did.

I didn't say PC gaming was dying, I said it was in decline and that perhaps it was destined to become obsolete(which does not mean dead, it just means worse than console gaming) and I implied that it was in its twilight years, yes, but I doubt PC gaming will ever die as long as there is Blizzard and a few others.

Speaking of Blizzard, they make up a huge portion of all that software and the MMO market. WoW is at 10 million or close to it at this point.

I love PC gaming. I do, however, find it disturbing that I can't even bring up the subject of its decline or share my opinions on it without you getting defensive, hostile, and insulting with your post man, that wasn't cool.

Pirating, System Requirements, and things like this(anit-pirating software or non-userfriendly installs) limit the market somewhat for PC games. That's a fact. Even the group trying to save computer gaming admits that in the challenges they face as PC developers.

I wish you would read my original post again and realize that it's not necessarily as hostile or as meanspirited towards PC gaming as you originally though.

When I see developers dropping the PC, or calling the Consoles "where its at" and btw these are long time developers on the PC that have historically gave the PC huge exclusives, then I can't help but feel that the PC gaming market is in decline. Maybe not dying, but it's not all rosey and happy like you seem to want to portrey it. There wouldn't need to be a group to revive computer gaming, if computer gaming was on the rise as a hot growing industry.

You don't have to respect me, I still respect you, but please don't talk to me like I'm an idiot.


Your posts still show ignorance. PC gaming is nowhere near dieing nor declining. It's healthily growing each year, particularly digital distribution and online revenue in general. 

The only thing that we have proof of decline is the US' PC boxed retail market, and even then it's negligible when we consider the boom of online revenue. Besides, North-America has the smallest PC market out of the 3 big regions, both Europe and Asia's PC market are easily several times bigger than the North-American's.

There have been reports that PC market has been increasing even more in Europe and Asia, both retail and online sales. Heck, even in the UK (a mostly console-focused "nation") the PC was THE top selling games platform of 2007, with 23% of retail market (and that's not even counting the online revenue), that was the first time in many, many years that PC was the top selling platform in the UK.

Pretty much the only place it's decreasing is the North-american boxed retail market. The North American PC online market though, is booming and I bet it's far bigger than the retail market.

Piracy is a big problem no doubt, but System Requirements??!  If anything, today is the best time in PC gaming for not only System Requirements but also Hardware Costs. It's amazing when my 5 year old PC can still play Mass Effect, SPORE, Starcraft 2, and almost every single PC game out there. Hell, you can even play an awesome game like Audiosurf on a near 10 year old PC. It helps that this gen the consoles got outdated faster than the previous generations, when comparing to PC's.

As far as I see it, PC has far more exclusives than Wii+360+PS3 combined. No big games? Then how about this year PC having far more AAA exclusives than any console? 

It's true that PC has been losing several of the bigger exclusives, but that also applies to all other consoles, if not more. Pretty much today 360/PS3 only have exclusives because of first-party support, with the ocasional third-party game. And just as alot of PC franchises are being released multiplatform, also alot of consoles franchises are being released on PC.



Around the Network

What's the big deal ?
You guys manage to post on this forum every day ( every hour for some) but you won't be able to connect to the net once every 10 days to authenticate the game ?

Heck, these days most games are considered failure without multiplayer and suddenly people are making the argument against games that require a net connection every 10 days ?

I just don't get it.........



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Ignorance isn't an insult. It's a descriptive term for lack of knowledge on a subject. I'm ignorant of a lot of things, but the PC market isn't one of them. I know very well what you meant by your original post, and you were simply wrong and tried to back out of it. You're wrong that it's in a decline too.

You are welcome to your opinion of PC gaming, but health of a market depends on facts, and you lack them. Saying "I have a feeling" is meaningless in a discussion of facts. The people who do complain about PC gaming either have nothing to do with developing PC games (like Cliffy B), or haven't made a good one in a while (Hey there id).

The PC gaming market is healthy and expanding in ways that the console market will NEVER be able to match. Consoles can never go >50% digital distribution like PCs are. PC gaming has made its own market, and I'm sorry you can't see that, but I don't recommend you continue a discussion on a subject you are uneducated on and ignorant of.



Why are people complaining about this? Who doesn't have a broadband internet connection nowadays..



Ail said:

What's the big deal ?
You guys manage to post on this forum every day ( every hour for some) but you won't be able to connect to the net once every 10 days to authenticate the game ?

Heck, these days most games are considered failure without multiplayer and suddenly people are making the argument against games that require a net connection every 10 days ?

I just don't get it.........


Congratulations, you have just played the "over-simplification" card.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Around the Network
Ail said:

What's the big deal ?
You guys manage to post on this forum every day ( every hour for some) but you won't be able to connect to the net once every 10 days to authenticate the game ?

Heck, these days most games are considered failure without multiplayer and suddenly people are making the argument against games that require a net connection every 10 days ?

I just don't get it.........


I don't always have an internet connection, and I don't always play my games regularly. If I want to play the game when my internet goes down, and I haven't played it within 10 days then I can't play it at all. Denying me access to a game I have bought is unacceptable in my book. There is no excuse for such draconian measures. I should not have to connect to the internet to play a single player game.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

NJ5 said:
Ail said:

What's the big deal ?
You guys manage to post on this forum every day ( every hour for some) but you won't be able to connect to the net once every 10 days to authenticate the game ?

Heck, these days most games are considered failure without multiplayer and suddenly people are making the argument against games that require a net connection every 10 days ?

I just don't get it.........


Congratulations, you have just played the "over-simplification" card.

 


Want to explain how that's over-simplified?  I use steam.  A few times a week Steam updates when I start it up.  30 seconds of a little connection and then I play my game.  How is this any different?  Once every 10 days you get a little pop-up that verifies your game before you play.  

@Gnizmo that's not how it works.  You don't have to renew it every 10 days, just every 10 days you want to play.  For example, you could not play Mass Effect for a month, and when you connect it will do the same verification it would do if you hadn't played it in 10 days.  It just means that every 10 days and longer since your last activation, when you go to start up the game it will require verification.  Most likely a process that takes less than 30 seconds. 



naznatips said:
 

Most likely a process that takes less than 30 seconds.


Probably less than 5.

 



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

naznatips said:
NJ5 said:
Ail said:

What's the big deal ?
You guys manage to post on this forum every day ( every hour for some) but you won't be able to connect to the net once every 10 days to authenticate the game ?

Heck, these days most games are considered failure without multiplayer and suddenly people are making the argument against games that require a net connection every 10 days ?

I just don't get it.........


Congratulations, you have just played the "over-simplification" card.

 


Want to explain how that's over-simplified? I use steam. A few times a week Steam updates when I start it up. 30 seconds of a little connection and then I play my game. How is this any different? Once every 10 days you get a little pop-up that verifies your game before you play.

(...)


It's over-simplification because:

1) The repeated activation is not the only thing people are complaining about

2) Even the repeated activation itself is not that simple. I may lose my internet connection, then I can't play the game, or I may go on vacation without internet access, or, or, or ....

You guys who are defending this can keep ignoring the fundamental reasons why this system is fucked up for legitimate customers, but that won't change the fact that it is.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

NJ5 said:
naznatips said:
NJ5 said:
Ail said:

What's the big deal ?
You guys manage to post on this forum every day ( every hour for some) but you won't be able to connect to the net once every 10 days to authenticate the game ?

Heck, these days most games are considered failure without multiplayer and suddenly people are making the argument against games that require a net connection every 10 days ?

I just don't get it.........


Congratulations, you have just played the "over-simplification" card.

 


Want to explain how that's over-simplified? I use steam. A few times a week Steam updates when I start it up. 30 seconds of a little connection and then I play my game. How is this any different? Once every 10 days you get a little pop-up that verifies your game before you play.

(...)


It's over-simplification because:

1) The repeated activation is not the only thing people are complaining about

2) Even the repeated activation itself is not that simple. I may lose my internet connection, then I can't play the game, or I may go on vacation without internet access, or, or, or ....

 


You are on vacation without internet? You lose your internet connection? Well what if you were on vacation without power? What if your power went out? Oh my god every game that requires your computer be plugged in is horrible!!! 

Hopefully you see my point... we all have 24 hour access to the interent that's just as much a part of our lives as electricity and phone service.  Any number of things can go wrong at any time to stop you from playing your games.  You can't play WoW when your internet is out either.   

What we see here folks is a classic case of "Looking for an excuse to complain" syndrome.   It's quite common on "teh internets."