I'll grant you that the kudos outweigh the commitments we've heard about so far, but I don't think the situation is as dire as you feel it is. Plenty of third party developers are ramping up their Wii production. Hudson's already credited the Wii with its revival, and its announced over a dozen new games for the system. Rockstar's already released three games for the Wii, which is three more than they've made for any other Nintendo system. Heck, EA created an entire division devoted to the Wii. And there are other examples. Compare this to the support the Wii had at the launch date, and I'll think you'll see that things are looking up.

I'll be the first to admit that of the games announced, the 360 and PS3 seem to have a lock on the AAA big-budget third party titles. But looking at the trends, at when the Wii's first started to really shed its "fad" status in third party eyes, and at how long it takes to create a game for the Wii (18-24 months, on average), I honestly believe that what we see now is not what we're going to get soon. I'm fairly confident we'll see quite a few third party games at E3 this year, and even more will be announced as the year chugs along. Granted, my conclusion relies on circumstancial data for now, but I think it's a sufficiently large mountain of circumstance for me to feel confident saying what I did.

And if E3 rolls by and we don't see diddly, you hereby have my permission to rub this post in my face.

 Er, I know I don't have much influence over you LordtheNightKnight, but please try to calm down. Like you, I feel that Words of Wisdom's overall point is incorrect, as I've written in my posts, but this conversation will go smoother if we keep it civil.

Ditto here.

The problem is that those games don't have to sell millions of copies to be a commerical success. Even worse, the pitfall here wouldn't be a single shovelware game selling over a million copies, it would be 500 shovelware games selling 20,000 copies each literally flooding store shelves edging out other games like Okami, No More Heroes, and Zack & Wiki.

The language there was just to show how offended I was at the arrogance I saw. If words based this on actual sales trends, I wouldn't have a problem. Instead, words is basing this on assuming to know what games the new gamers will buy, and what will appeal to them.

If I wanted to argue about sales trends, I'd be posting in the Sales Discussion forum.

Err, this is just a restrained comment, thats clear off topic, but I think the average wii owner that is claimed to be casual take about 3 months before they pick up another game right after they get a Wii, but as soon as they buy one (same day) they usually buy 2 or 3 games with it.

At the end of that during the 2 to 3 months they borrow games from their friends. Then shell out to buy a new game, with that being said the Wii userbase would probably have to be about 50 million before you start seeing almost all the software sales matching at the least the mediocore titles. Typical 'Shovel ware' breaking 400k a minimum.

But thats all assuming there is no trasitional software to lead the addiotional 20 million 'casuals' to a wider selection of games.

Very very interesting. Developers have a system with gamers that are like a white canvas, they can do whatever they want, but they have to use the right oil for that canvas, the colors is where they have options.

"HappySquirrel wanted to use the article's definition of shovelware."

I did not write that. I did not even edit that in, so why are you replying to it?

"Games with bad gameplay or broken gameplay can still have pretty box art. I'm sure you know what that means..."

Show me data where bad games are hits based on the box art.

"Are you kidding? At first it was all excuses and we'll wait and see stuff coming out of developers. They didn't want to believe the Wii was going to be a commercial success. Now they're refusing to believe that success can benefit them. You're right in saying that developers putting down the Wii isn't a new thing, but the reason has very much changed. We've gone from guarded skepticism to denial."

But that isn't proof that shovelware is ruining the Wii. It just proves developers are being stupid.

"It's not arrogance. I've seen people ranging from 5 years old to 30 years old play the game Cars (for example) and none really cared for it despite loving the movies. That's a heckuva lot more experience with what other people like than you have shown."

Because anecdotes you can make up sure are better than actual sales and trends data. [/sarcasm]

And Cars is not just on the Wii, so why wouldn't that turn them off to the other systems the game is on?

"Then why are the companies still making them? You'd think if they weren't selling those companies would stop making them unless *gasp* they're making a profit. But that would be logical."

I thought the point was gaming newbies buying the games in numbers sufficient to turn them off to the Wii (and possibly gaming entirely), not whether these minuscule sales were profitable.

You can't even stick to the point. But that would be logical.

This point has no merit, unless you can show me actual data that proves that people new to game are even beginning to be turned off by sovelware on the Wii.

If we went by anecdotal evidence, I would just claim that the only people turned off are the Sony and Microsoft fanboys, or at least those who claim to have a Wii.

What a lie. I did not ask you to argue about sales trends. I stated you should use the sales trends as a basis for the argument about the Wii's future. Pretending this is just about sales is just an excuse to avoid using proper evidence. 

LordTheNightKnight

follow me: Breath in, breath out - it really wasn't worth your time, if I'm loling then everyone else that matters is loling.

I just poke fun at it, correcting it unless of course you had something new and inspired to say would be pointless; I'm sure he's heard both sides before.