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Forums - Gaming - Are you a retrogamer?

 

How much of a retrogamer are you?

I play at least one old game a year. 3 8.33%
 
I play three or four old games a year. 8 22.22%
 
I play more than four old games a year. 10 27.78%
 
I own more old games than modern games. 12 33.33%
 
I never play old games bu... 1 2.78%
 
I started playing games a... 0 0%
 
I started playing games a... 0 0%
 
I don't even play modern ... 0 0%
 
2 5.56%
 
Total:36
Cerebralbore101 said:
HoloDust said:

Back in days, before advanced shaders were possible, I often enabled one of those interpolating upscaling algorithms, like Eagle, 2xSal, hqx, xBR and similar. They do make 2D games from 80s look like remasters of a sort, but for me anything is better then straight up original raw pixels on modern displays (since they were never meant to be experienced in such a way).

I think as technology gets better, we'll be seeing more stand alone boxes that have enough juice to run heavy processing that either emulates CRTs or do real-time ML upscaling (or both, so that user can pick preferred option).

Cause sooner or later, all those CRTs will be dead, and I'm hoping to see good enough replacement for them by that time.

A lot of professional tubes are rated for 100,000 hours and up. They will all be dead one day but sets that get the proper maintenance will last another 30-40 years at least. 

As far as tech that properly emulates a CRT we have that in the RetroTink 4k. It's not PVM level perfect but really does rock for simulating good consumer sets. 

Oh and someone has been working on an open source CRT chassis for years. Once that is finished a lot of old tubes will be restorable and moddable. 

From what I've seen of RetroTink's CRT filters (unfortunately, only videos and images) it does a solid job. I'd say nowhere near as good as some of GPU shaders out there, but it's fairly descent.

I think that we're getting there to actually replacing CRTs in next 5-10 years - shaders are already very good and we're getting there with actual display tech to support actual cathode ray movement emulation (like ShaderBeam) on 480Hz OLEDs, or even better, ultimately in the future, on MicroLEDs.

At one time, some decade or so ago, I was hoping that Prysm, or someone like them, will maybe get into consumer market as well - they make large format LPDs (Laser Phosphor Displays) for enterprise purposes, that are very similar to CRT, but with UV laser instead of cathode ray. But I don't think that retro market is big enough to be lucrative for anyone to actually produce something similar, so I guess shaders + MicroLED (or something else, Quantum Dot displays maybe) is the way to go in the future.



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Before '06? Oh mah lawd have I gotten old! I still almost look at 2000s stuff as "modern" or at least quasi modern heh. I basically started with NES Mario/Duck Hunt when I was like 5. 

But yeah in many ways I actually prefer them, especially when playing with friends and family. Usually SNES (and bit of Genesis) is my go-to solo or with one other player. With multiple people it's N64 or I guess Wii if that counts. Retro games just feel more pure to me, more soul and character, more cutting to the point, more action and depth without the fluff.



"We hold these truths to be self-evident - All men and women created by the, go-you know - you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

HoloDust said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

A lot of professional tubes are rated for 100,000 hours and up. They will all be dead one day but sets that get the proper maintenance will last another 30-40 years at least. 

As far as tech that properly emulates a CRT we have that in the RetroTink 4k. It's not PVM level perfect but really does rock for simulating good consumer sets. 

Oh and someone has been working on an open source CRT chassis for years. Once that is finished a lot of old tubes will be restorable and moddable. 

From what I've seen of RetroTink's CRT filters (unfortunately, only videos and images) it does a solid job. I'd say nowhere near as good as some of GPU shaders out there, but it's fairly descent.

I think that we're getting there to actually replacing CRTs in next 5-10 years - shaders are already very good and we're getting there with actual display tech to support actual cathode ray movement emulation (like ShaderBeam) on 480Hz OLEDs, or even better, ultimately in the future, on MicroLEDs.

At one time, some decade or so ago, I was hoping that Prysm, or someone like them, will maybe get into consumer market as well - they make large format LPDs (Laser Phosphor Displays) for enterprise purposes, that are very similar to CRT, but with UV laser instead of cathode ray. But I don't think that retro market is big enough to be lucrative for anyone to actually produce something similar, so I guess shaders + MicroLED (or something else, Quantum Dot displays maybe) is the way to go in the future.

As someone that owns a multi-format BVM and several PVMs, I'll attest to the Tink 4K being much better than GPU shaders. Lots of other retrogamers agree, because they wouldn't pay $700 for it otherwise. You could just pass the signal from your older game systems through your PC for less than that otherwise. Also, yeah, videos on the internet do not do a PVM, BVM, or Tink 4K justice. It needs to be seen IRL. 



More people better embrance retrogaming because current gaming is moving away out of reach quickly.



Cerebralbore101 said:
HoloDust said:

From what I've seen of RetroTink's CRT filters (unfortunately, only videos and images) it does a solid job. I'd say nowhere near as good as some of GPU shaders out there, but it's fairly descent.

I think that we're getting there to actually replacing CRTs in next 5-10 years - shaders are already very good and we're getting there with actual display tech to support actual cathode ray movement emulation (like ShaderBeam) on 480Hz OLEDs, or even better, ultimately in the future, on MicroLEDs.

At one time, some decade or so ago, I was hoping that Prysm, or someone like them, will maybe get into consumer market as well - they make large format LPDs (Laser Phosphor Displays) for enterprise purposes, that are very similar to CRT, but with UV laser instead of cathode ray. But I don't think that retro market is big enough to be lucrative for anyone to actually produce something similar, so I guess shaders + MicroLED (or something else, Quantum Dot displays maybe) is the way to go in the future.

As someone that owns a multi-format BVM and several PVMs, I'll attest to the Tink 4K being much better than GPU shaders. Lots of other retrogamers agree, because they wouldn't pay $700 for it otherwise. You could just pass the signal from your older game systems through your PC for less than that otherwise. Also, yeah, videos on the internet do not do a PVM, BVM, or Tink 4K justice. It needs to be seen IRL. 

I would love to see RetroTINK 4K in person - from what I know (theoretically) on what it can do, they did a really great job with CRT emulation, especially for folks who aim for that "BVM/PVM via component cables" feel. I know it can do consumer via composite pretty good, it's just that for someone like me that actually wants for 80s games to look like they did in 80s on consumer TVs, I don't think that hardware inside of it can physically emulate everything that highest end GPU shaders (that can gobble up so much of modern GPUs that it's ridiculous) can. 

But yeah, it's certainly remarkable box, and if I was in the market for such standalone box at this moment, I would certainly go with it due all the things it offers, ease of use and pretty much no additional latency.



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HoloDust said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

As someone that owns a multi-format BVM and several PVMs, I'll attest to the Tink 4K being much better than GPU shaders. Lots of other retrogamers agree, because they wouldn't pay $700 for it otherwise. You could just pass the signal from your older game systems through your PC for less than that otherwise. Also, yeah, videos on the internet do not do a PVM, BVM, or Tink 4K justice. It needs to be seen IRL. 

I would love to see RetroTINK 4K in person - from what I know (theoretically) on what it can do, they did a really great job with CRT emulation, especially for folks who aim for that "BVM/PVM via component cables" feel. I know it can do consumer via composite pretty good, it's just that for someone like me that actually wants for 80s games to look like they did in 80s on consumer TVs, I don't think that hardware inside of it can physically emulate everything that highest end GPU shaders (that can gobble up so much of modern GPUs that it's ridiculous) can. 

But yeah, it's certainly remarkable box, and if I was in the market for such standalone box at this moment, I would certainly go with it due all the things it offers, ease of use and pretty much no additional latency.

Consumer sets in the 80's would be composite or RF. I've never tried to emulate either on a Tink 4K. There's just no need. Component, S-Video, and RGB Scart all look better and keep the games looking authentic. I'll see if anyone with a Tink4K has bothered to try and respond with what they say. 



Cerebralbore101 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

I tend to get on a "kick" where I focus on one system for most of the year and then put it away for several years.  So, there is no single game I come back to every year, but there are quite a few games that I keep coming back to every several years.  The best games never get old.  Some games show their age, but are still kinda fun.  Other games age like wine and seem to get better every time you play them.

Overall, I think console gaming peaked on the NES and then got slightly worse each generation with a few high points like the Wii and Switch.  PC gaming peaked in the 90's.  The most current line of game consoles doesn't have many games that I'm interesting in playing.

Here are the systems I own:

AVS (for NES games)
Genesis
PS2 (for PS1+PS2 games)
Gamecube
Wii
XBox1 (for 360+XB1 games)
Wii U (haven't touched since Switch released)
Switch 
GBA player from Analogue NT (for GB+GBA games)
PSP
3DS (for DS+3DS games)
60-in-1 arcade cabinet
GOG account with a few dozen games
PVM and regular CRT 

What are your model numbers for the PVM and consumer sets? I have a BVM A20F1U and a PVM20M2U. Both are on CRTdatabase. 

If I remember, I will look when I'm at home later.  I remember it's a 10" screen, and it isn't a BVM.



Cerebralbore101 said:
HoloDust said:

I would love to see RetroTINK 4K in person - from what I know (theoretically) on what it can do, they did a really great job with CRT emulation, especially for folks who aim for that "BVM/PVM via component cables" feel. I know it can do consumer via composite pretty good, it's just that for someone like me that actually wants for 80s games to look like they did in 80s on consumer TVs, I don't think that hardware inside of it can physically emulate everything that highest end GPU shaders (that can gobble up so much of modern GPUs that it's ridiculous) can. 

But yeah, it's certainly remarkable box, and if I was in the market for such standalone box at this moment, I would certainly go with it due all the things it offers, ease of use and pretty much no additional latency.

Consumer sets in the 80's would be composite or RF. I've never tried to emulate either on a Tink 4K. There's just no need. Component, S-Video, and RGB Scart all look better and keep the games looking authentic. I'll see if anyone with a Tink4K has bothered to try and respond with what they say. 

Oh, S-Video, Component and SCART certainly do look better, as in cleaner, but thing about early 80s CRTs is that, in most cases, you hooked your console/computer to them via RF, or in better case composite - well, at least from what I've seen back then around houses. So that's my memory of how those games should look. I think I've seen first SCART somewhere in later 80s, but by that time TV were already better than those relics from early 80s, and it was already 16 bit era, so different experience from early 8 bit days (which for me started around 83 with ZX Spectrum and C64).



HoloDust said:

Oh, S-Video, Component and SCART certainly do look better, as in cleaner, but thing about early 80s CRTs is that, in most cases, you hooked your console/computer to them via RF, or in better case composite - well, at least from what I've seen back then around houses. So that's my memory of how those games should look. I think I've seen first SCART somewhere in later 80s, but by that time TV were already better than those relics from early 80s, and it was already 16 bit era, so different experience from early 8 bit days (which for me started around 83 with ZX Spectrum and C64).

HF-modulation was the worst!

When I got my first computer in 1987 (Commodore 128) I bought it together with a Commodore 1701 monitor.

The video signal was seperated into "luma", "chroma" and "audio"... I was very happy with the video quality back in those days.

 



Conina said:
HoloDust said:

Oh, S-Video, Component and SCART certainly do look better, as in cleaner, but thing about early 80s CRTs is that, in most cases, you hooked your console/computer to them via RF, or in better case composite - well, at least from what I've seen back then around houses. So that's my memory of how those games should look. I think I've seen first SCART somewhere in later 80s, but by that time TV were already better than those relics from early 80s, and it was already 16 bit era, so different experience from early 8 bit days (which for me started around 83 with ZX Spectrum and C64).

HF-modulation was the worst!

When I got my first computer in 1987 (Commodore 128) I bought it together with a Commodore 1701 monitor.

The video signal was seperated into "luma", "chroma" and "audio"... I was very happy with the video quality back in those days.

Yeah, of course it was the worst - and it was what developers where expecting how it's in most homes, RF or Composite at best. And it's how they developed those games, with multiple CRTs, to see how their art behaves in real world, versus monitors they were designing their games on.

As I said, I went into home video gaming around '83, and all my friends and me had those systems (ZX or C64, it was more or less even split) hooked via RF, or composite at best...so that's how I remember them.

In the late 80s I was on Amiga 500 hooked to TV first with composite via modulator for a short time, then via SCART.