Lol, if you think the majority is stupid then you don't actually know what gaussian is.  Have a good one.  Lose hard at all levels of government...  nope, no strategy issues.  

Then you misunderstood the original comment and replied about Gaussian. When you say there's some insanely brilliant people and a general population of goldfish brained, half wits most people would assume you mean the bulk (general population) of the US is stupid. So sure it's a Gaussian where the center distribution is "gold fish brained, half wits". 

Difference I can see between Zorg and Rol is that Zorg thinks the general populace is stupid but you still have to try to message to them. I'm unsure of Rol's prescription for how to deal with the stupid populace. 

It's similar wording to the classic Trump thing: "They're murderers, they're rapists, and some I assume are good people" means that you think most of the group you are talking about it murderers and rapists with some small section of good people that make up a minority. 

Since you guys keep bringing me up, I’ll add this. I think the general population being dumb and Democrats needing to be better messengers are not mutually exclusive.

Democrats need to do a better job at attracting low information voters who vote based on vibes.

I mean you all can keep thinking only dumb people vote republican. That was the attitude last election... and Republicans took the WH, senate, house of reps and majority governors... and they have the SCOTUS... seems be working great.

I mentioned it way back at the point of origin of this whole chain: The problem with stupid people is that you can't reason someone out of a position they haven't arrived at through reason. The typical prerequisite to get through to a stupid person is that said person is able to recognize their own stupidity. This is something that we can witness in the polling already: Trump's approval rating hasn't nosedived within a few months because of anything the Democrats have accomplished (after all, they have done hardly anything of note in 2025), it comes solely down to Trump voters realizing what a terrible decision they made.

I agree with zorg that the population being dumb and the Democrats needing to have better policies and messaging are not mutually exclusive. Before the election, whatever the Democrats said fell on deaf ears on a widespread level, hence why Americans voted for a wannabe dictator despite so many warning signs being plain out in the open. But now, six months into Trump's term, a large enough chunk of the general population is willing to listen. That's the opportunity that Democrats need to seize while at the same time they need to hope that the midterm election in 2026 can still be somewhat fair and lawful, something that is already a big question mark at this point in time.

I'll add that the most common reason why someone is willing to defend stupidity is because they share some or all of the same beliefs as the stupid people. It's obvious that Chrkeller has more of an issue with people calling out stupidity than a president who dismantles the American democracy.

When I say the general population is dumb, I’m not singling out republicans. That applies to republicans, democrats and independents and maybe dumb isn’t the right way to describe them, let’s refer to them as low information voters instead.

I don’t think the average person pays much attention to politics outside of election season every four years. I don’t think the average person’s understanding of how government works goes much further than learning about the three branches in 4th grade. I don’t think the average person has a clear, consistent ideology that they base their vote on.

Basically our elections are decided by how well each party can appeal to a population of people who don’t pay attention, only have a basic understanding and vote based on vibes.

This I will happily agree with.  Poorly informed voters are very common, but that doesn't mean dumb or unintelligent.  It means politicians are doing a poor job at delivering their message to the people.  We live in an age of convenience (amazon, deliveroo, streaming), politicians need to communicate differently.  

The other thing, not directed at you, I find funny is how the left (in general) doesn't think their attitude is a problem.  Most middle Americans are well aware the left looks down on them.  The left is referred to "elitist" for a reason.  Why would middle Americans support a party that thinks they are deplorable, trash, stupid, etc?  The answer is, they wouldn't....  and didn't.  This thread is a great example.  Very condescending and rude to 50% of the US population.  I can assure you threads like this just make current conservatives more unwilling to vote differently.  Bill Maher has a lot of good videos talking about this impact.  The constant insulting and vilification of anyone who doesn't agree with liberals isn't a good strategy.  

The shorter version is, you get a hell of a lot more bees with honey than vinegar.  

Yeah I've noticed this a lot too.

Among the louder elements of the left at least, there's always the sense that leftist ideology is perfect and beyond reproach and that anyone who doesn't agree with it is just a filthy ignorant subhuman fascist who can't be reasoned with.

This attitude alienates broad swathes of folks from groups like working class white people and straight men and drives them into the arms of the right, who then win them over by promising them "we don't hate you like the left does."

This is why the alt right has flourished in recent years, and if it's ever going to be defeated, this needs to change.

Very well articulated Curl.  This is exactly what is happening all across the country.  

I know absolutely brilliant people who voted republican last election.  People who run circles around many folks here.  But many liberals will insist those people have to be "dumb" because they can't fathom a world where someone might not agree with their platform.  Thr left have created this attitude "if you don't agree, you are beneath me."  Well the message has been received and middle America has responded with "go **** yourself" attitude of their own.  

Kamala got 12 million votes less than Biden. These people did not 'turn stupid' overnight. These people just did not want to reward the Dems for their last minute trick putting Kamala on the ballot. Without a primary vote one would say, just because their donors got nervous. How democratic.

All politicians lie, it's almost expected from them. But that in the piranha pit that is Washington DC the Dems leadership did not know the state Biden was in is a farce. In a place where knowledge is power off course they did. But still keeping up appearances even though it was pretty obvious to the masses after that Biden-Trump debate. Then putting the VP on the ballot, who of all people should have known how incapable Biden was to do the job, just another slap in the face to their potential voters. With that strategy the Dems never had a chance.

They need to root out their old leadership if they want to come back from this.