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Forums - Politics - 12 year old girl in UK put in isolation and sent home by school for wearing Union Jack to Culture Day

SeaDaVie said:
The_Yoda said:

It looks as if they normally wear a uniform in her school (according to the first link.) So every outfit that was not the uniform violated the dress code. Am I missing something?  You, I believe, in a later post claim she violated the dress code.  That does not appear to be the case as every outfit that wasn't their uniform violated the everyday dress code. This was a special dress day.

Also from the article 

“It’s about being British, the Spice Girls and even the freedom at being able to wear a dress. This is just what being British means to her.”

Grade-A student Courtney also planned to read a speech celebrating Shakespeare, fish and chips, and the royal family

How long does something have to be done to be considered a tradition or traditional? Weren't all traditions young once?  Wasn't every traditional dress new fashion at some point?  The Spice Girls were 30 years ago. That is nearly three times the girls age.  I've said it before and I will say  it again timing and in this case perspective do not get the credit in life they deserve.

I posed probably too many questions so I will stop here.

People have been wearing Adidas tracksuits longer than the Spices Girls existed but if you show up to culture day in trackies you'll get told to go home. 

Adidas is German. Not sure if a good idea to wear on English Boarding school



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Tober said:
SeaDaVie said:

People have been wearing Adidas tracksuits longer than the Spices Girls existed but if you show up to culture day in trackies you'll get told to go home. 

Adidas is German. Not sure if a good idea to wear on English Boarding school


Sure, and those Union Jack dresses are pretty much exclusively made in China



SeaDaVie said:
The_Yoda said:

It looks as if they normally wear a uniform in her school (according to the first link.) So every outfit that was not the uniform violated the dress code. Am I missing something?  You, I believe, in a later post claim she violated the dress code.  That does not appear to be the case as every outfit that wasn't their uniform violated the everyday dress code. This was a special dress day.

Also from the article 

“It’s about being British, the Spice Girls and even the freedom at being able to wear a dress. This is just what being British means to her.”

Grade-A student Courtney also planned to read a speech celebrating Shakespeare, fish and chips, and the royal family

How long does something have to be done to be considered a tradition or traditional? Weren't all traditions young once?  Wasn't every traditional dress new fashion at some point?  The Spice Girls were 30 years ago. That is nearly three times the girls age.  I've said it before and I will say  it again timing and in this case perspective do not get the credit in life they deserve.

I posed probably too many questions so I will stop here.

People have been wearing Adidas tracksuits longer than the Spices Girls existed but if you show up to culture day in trackies you'll get told to go home. 

Since you ignored most of my questions I will only respond tongue in cheek - I would say Adidas tracksuits are almost traditional Russian Mafia / Eastern European  attire.  If she were Russian and shady trackies may have fit.

You'll like this that I got in the search results:

Do Eastern Europeans wear tracksuits?
Athletic clothing

Tracksuits have a unique history in Eastern Europe and the UK. You might see them on the street, but wearing one yourself sends out some fairly complicated class and subculture signals!
On a slightly more serious note:
A big part of your failure to connect your points to your readers seems to stem from your rather rigid definition of cultural significance.  You are a decade and a half removed from your school days so forgive me for not accepting as fact your assertion that 'they'll tell you to go home if you wear this or that'.  Seems speculative and based on your feelings instead of fact.
Speaking of feelings ... Not being from the UK, it is only my feeling, that what passes for 'acceptable' would vary widely from region to region and/or school to school. Is my feeling inaccurate?  
Lastly IMO you got pilled on because you spit vitriol at the wrong person.  Why did you yourself not address any of the posts you felt were xenophobic and start instead with an almost personal and assumptive reply to Mummel?  Could it be you thought the other posters not worthy of your time?  Could Mummel have not felt the same way? If that were the case it would explain his lack of addressing the other posters rather than explain who he is as a person or tell you all you needed to know about him.    Look at me now you have me speculating.  

Edit - Sorry about the formatting after the copy/paste of my search results I can't seem to fix it and it is difficult to read.  



The_Yoda said:
SeaDaVie said:

People have been wearing Adidas tracksuits longer than the Spices Girls existed but if you show up to culture day in trackies you'll get told to go home. 

Since you ignored most of my questions I will only respond tongue in cheek - I would say Adidas tracksuits are almost traditional Russian Mafia / Eastern European  attire.  If she were Russian and shady trackies may have fit.

You'll like this that I got in the search results:

Do Eastern Europeans wear tracksuits?
Athletic clothing

Tracksuits have a unique history in Eastern Europe and the UK. You might see them on the street, but wearing one yourself sends out some fairly complicated class and subculture signals!
On a slightly more serious note:
A big part of your failure to connect your points to your readers seems to stem from your rather rigid definition of cultural significance.  You are a decade and a half removed from your school days so forgive me for not accepting as fact your assertion that 'they'll tell you to go home if you wear this or that'.  Seems speculative and based on your feelings instead of fact.
Speaking of feelings ... Not being from the UK, it is only my feeling, that what passes for 'acceptable' would vary widely from region to region and/or school to school. Is my feeling inaccurate?  
Lastly IMO you got pilled on because you spit vitriol at the wrong person.  Why did you yourself not address any of the posts you felt were xenophobic and start instead with an almost personal and assumptive reply to Mummel?  Could it be you thought the other posters not worthy of your time?  Could Mummel have not felt the same way? If that were the case it would explain his lack of addressing the other posters rather than explain who he is as a person or tell you all you needed to know about him.    Look at me now you have me speculating.  

Edit - Sorry about the formatting after the copy/paste of my search results I can't seem to fix it and it is difficult to read.  

I offered a general rebuttal of the kind of comments that were being made on the first page of the discussion, I didn’t think specifically targeting anyone would be productive. This other dude was the guy who specifically replied to me and took umbrage at my statement, as his very first involvement in the discussion that I can see. I don’t think what he said is as bad as the general rhetoric from the early discussion but he was specially the one looking for an argument.



SeaDaVie said:
The_Yoda said:

Since you ignored most of my questions I will only respond tongue in cheek - I would say Adidas tracksuits are almost traditional Russian Mafia / Eastern European  attire.  If she were Russian and shady trackies may have fit.

You'll like this that I got in the search results:

Do Eastern Europeans wear tracksuits?
Athletic clothing

Tracksuits have a unique history in Eastern Europe and the UK. You might see them on the street, but wearing one yourself sends out some fairly complicated class and subculture signals!
On a slightly more serious note:
A big part of your failure to connect your points to your readers seems to stem from your rather rigid definition of cultural significance.  You are a decade and a half removed from your school days so forgive me for not accepting as fact your assertion that 'they'll tell you to go home if you wear this or that'.  Seems speculative and based on your feelings instead of fact.
Speaking of feelings ... Not being from the UK, it is only my feeling, that what passes for 'acceptable' would vary widely from region to region and/or school to school. Is my feeling inaccurate?  
Lastly IMO you got pilled on because you spit vitriol at the wrong person.  Why did you yourself not address any of the posts you felt were xenophobic and start instead with an almost personal and assumptive reply to Mummel?  Could it be you thought the other posters not worthy of your time?  Could Mummel have not felt the same way? If that were the case it would explain his lack of addressing the other posters rather than explain who he is as a person or tell you all you needed to know about him.    Look at me now you have me speculating.  

Edit - Sorry about the formatting after the copy/paste of my search results I can't seem to fix it and it is difficult to read.  

I offered a general rebuttal of the kind of comments that were being made on the first page of the discussion, I didn’t think specifically targeting anyone would be productive. This other dude was the guy who specifically replied to me and took umbrage at my statement, as his very first involvement in the discussion that I can see. I don’t think what he said is as bad as the general rhetoric from the early discussion but he was specially the one looking for an argument.

Please forgive me.  I only had two hours sleep and remembered the exchange incorrectly.  You came in and made a statement Mums responded to you.  I thought it was him making a statement then you responding to him with your first post. That is my bad.  My statement "Lastly IMO you got pilled on because you spit vitriol at the wrong person.  Why did you yourself not address any of the posts you felt were xenophobic and start instead with an almost personal and assumptive reply to Mummel?" that is crap since that is not the way it went down. Once again my bad.  The rest of what I was trying to get at seems relevant to my tired mind.  Perhaps a re-read tomorrow will prove different.  Until then cheers all.



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Dante9 said:

What the hell is wrong with these people? And why are the native people in European countries being kept down in their own homelands? This truly is a sickness of the mind.
Everything is a minefield now. Are we not getting tired of this?

I only came in here to look for the first stupid reactionary comment to respond to, you didn't disappoint :D

This was one incident in one school, not a reflection of all of Europe. Those who punished her were in the wrong, and people found it outrageous. They were promptly forced to apologize to the girl, and the Prime Minister of the UK supported her, indicating the exact opposite story to what you're claiming this is.

All the information was posted by Curl above your post. You shouldn't have missed it.

You can and should do better than this.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

SeaDaVie said:

Nothing you say makes any sense at all. There is a page of people blaming it on muslims and foreigners and I pointed out the actual rule infringement. That's not my preconception, blaming it on people you have been taught to hate is a preconception, not reading through the document and trying to understand the nature of the problem.

It's not about defending the school, who I know absolutely nothing about. It was about pointing out that there can be an actual reason this decision was made that had nothing to do with the country being taken over by Muslims or foreigners. You're assuming it was politically motivated, that's your preconception.

Again, though, the fact youre offended by my comments and not the people displaying pretty obvious biases and prejudices is pretty telling. 

You mean you MADE UP a rule infringement because nothing in the article supported that whatsoever.  In fact, the school's own press release where they talked about making a mistake and apologized to the student and their family directly contradicts your claim.  Nowhere do they say it was a dress code violation.  You made that up because you wanted to excuse the mistreatment of a child.

The question is, why are you so determined to excuse the mistreatment of a child when the accused themselves have apologized and said that they are "reviewing policies and strengthening staff training" as a result?  It's flat out bizarre that you are fighting a battle that has already been surrendered.

It really says a lot about you that you literally pull stuff from thin air in order to hit your talking points.

And, by the way, there is nothing wrong with supporting tougher immigration rules or protecting your own cultural identity.  Personally, I don't know anything about the situation in England on that front so I stayed within the scope of the article.

Regardless, the simple fact here is that you wanted very badly for this girl to be at fault and you did your absolute best to blame the situation on a 12 year old.  Victim blaming is not cool but you did it anyway.  Why?  YOU think about THAT before you start pointing fingers at other people.

That says everything about who you are.



SeaDaVie said:

It is quite clear her outfit, which is completely hideous, was not appropriate for a school setting, nor did it have cultural significance.

Apparently it has enough cultural significance to justify an Wikipedia article.

And this apparently has enough cultural significance to be often copied in public displays:

I think you are the only person to see no cultural significance, but everyone has the right to be ignorant I guess.

BTW, I am not even british and can see the cultural significance.



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I would just like to add that this is why schools should strictly adhere to English, math, history etc. Our kids get bludgeoned upside the head every day on their socials with weaponized politics from both sides. They don't need any more of it. Hell, I could argue they don't it at all. Let them be kids, for fuck's sake. Leave them alone.



SeaDaVie said:

This is what traditional cultural outfit look like btw



https://www.lovetoknow.com/life/lifestyle/national-costumes-world

Pretty conservative and reductive view. Culture is much more than just old stuff. Also as a german I am offended by Lederhosen and Dirndl, this is Bavarian bullshit, not german.



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10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]