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Forums - Politics - Study: There is more diversity of beliefs on the political right than on the left (U.S.)

KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

Something being a widely accepted truth doesn't necessitate it being a fact. Personally I tend to go with the consensus of experts that study these topics their entire lives rather than crowd sourcing. Likely goes with my profession, but I value expertise highly in fields which I am not well versed. 

Do you? Or do you just go with the consensus of the experts that allign more with your own beliefs? Because actual experts(not some random person who wrote a book and has a degree in some BS human behaviour science) the vast majority of actual doctors and scientists believe that your chromosomes dictade your gender.

doctors are experts on sociology? Thought they studied mecidine, do I really give a shit what a cardiologist thinks about gender/sex? I go with the people that study this stuff. Who have PhD's in that "BS human behavior science" because we're talking about human behavior. I'm a scientist, I have a PhD in biochemistry, but that does not make me an expert on sociology. Believe it or not there are people that study that specifically and those are the people that I tend to go with. Just like even when something in physics doesn't make a ton of sense to me I still trust that the people who study this for their whole lives have a better understanding of it than I do. Similarly if a computer engineer is concerned about the effects of different ingredients in vaccines he should probably take my word for it over the general consensus about mercury. 

Also, I'd love a source on that claim about what most doctors and scientists think about gender/sex. 



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Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

Do you? Or do you just go with the consensus of the experts that allign more with your own beliefs? Because actual experts(not some random person who wrote a book and has a degree in some BS human behaviour science) the vast majority of actual doctors and scientists believe that your chromosomes dictade your gender.

doctors are experts on sociology? Thought they studied mecidine, do I really give a shit what a cardiologist thinks about gender/sex? I go with the people that study this stuff. Who have PhD's in that "BS human behavior science" because we're talking about human behavior. I'm a scientist, I have a PhD in biochemistry, but that does not make me an expert on sociology. Believe it or not there are people that study that specifically and those are the people that I tend to go with. Just like even when something in physics doesn't make a ton of sense to me I still trust that the people who study this for their whole lives have a better understanding of it than I do. Similarly if a computer engineer is concerned about the effects of different ingredients in vaccines he should probably take my word for it over the general consensus about mercury. 

Doctors know about chromosomes and the human body obviously. You know I meant that, but you choose to misrepresent what I say just to make me look stupid. So I think we are done here.

I think there is a flower outside who thinks its a tree. You as a biochemist should go out and assure it that it can be a tree if it really wants to.



KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

doctors are experts on sociology? Thought they studied mecidine, do I really give a shit what a cardiologist thinks about gender/sex? I go with the people that study this stuff. Who have PhD's in that "BS human behavior science" because we're talking about human behavior. I'm a scientist, I have a PhD in biochemistry, but that does not make me an expert on sociology. Believe it or not there are people that study that specifically and those are the people that I tend to go with. Just like even when something in physics doesn't make a ton of sense to me I still trust that the people who study this for their whole lives have a better understanding of it than I do. Similarly if a computer engineer is concerned about the effects of different ingredients in vaccines he should probably take my word for it over the general consensus about mercury. 

Doctors know about chromosomes and the human body obviously. You know I meant that, but you choose to misrepresent what I say just to make me look stupid. So I think we are done here.

I think there is a flower outside who thinks its a tree. You as a biochemist should go out and assure it that it can be a tree if it really wants to.

"

While there isn't one definitive "poll" that captures every aspect of how doctors differentiate between sex and gender, various sources shed light on how medical professionals approach this crucial distinction in healthcare:
1. Defining sex and gender in medicine
  • "Sex" refers to biological differences (chromosomes, hormones, anatomy), while "gender" encompasses socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society at a given time considers appropriate for men and women.
  • The terms sex and gender are often used interchangeably, even though they should not be, according to the American Medical Women's Association.
  • It's important to recognize that both sex and gender can influence health and illness and are often intertwined. 
2. Importance in research and clinical practice
  • Clear differentiation between sex and gender is essential for effective tracking of gender equity initiatives in public health, according to the National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov).
  • Medical hypotheses and practices need to consider the effects of both sex and gender to improve health outcomes.
  • Gender medicine aims to include both biological and sociocultural dimensions when considering their effects on women and men to improve health and health care. 
3. Acknowledging diversity and challenges
  • Individuals may not conform to prevailing gender norms, and some may identify with a gender that differs from their assigned sex at birth.
  • Transgender and nonbinary individuals represent further complexities in the intersection of sex and gender.
  • Collecting and analyzing data on sex and gender necessitates acknowledging and capturing this diversity to understand how these factors affect health within and across different settings. 
4. Addressing disparities and advancing healthcare
  • A deeper understanding of how sex and gender (and gender identity) impact health is vital to addressing health disparities and tailoring interventions to meet diverse needs.
  • It's critical to consider the distinctions between sex and gender in health data collection, analysis, and reporting to make progress toward gender equality and health equity, says the National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov).
  • Using a two-step process in health data collection – capturing data on sex assigned at birth and separately on self-reported gender – is recommended to better characterize these distinct constructs. 
In conclusion, polling doctors on the nuanced distinction between sex and gender would likely reveal a shared understanding of their individual roles in health and a commitment to integrating this knowledge into research and patient care to improve health outcomes for all."
I'll just leave this here if you decide to stand behind your arguments and not just run away. 


...

Why are we using the framing of right wing weirdos on a study that doesn't make such claim?

This was mapping the responses to 8 questions:
Should abortion be illegal?
Should the government take steps to make incomes more equal?
Should all unauthorized immigrants be sent back to their home country?
Should the federal budget for welfare programs be increased?
Should lesbian, gay, and trans couples be allowed to legally marry?
Should the government regulate business to protect the environment?
Should the federal government make it more difficult to buy a gun?
Should the federal government make a concerted effort to improve social and economic conditions for African Americans?


This is just an indication on responses to these questions and nothing else.
*the claim "the right has more diversity of thought than the left" isn't even asserted by the study itself*

If I asked 1000 people a question on "should slavery come back" and group A all said no and group B had a wide range of Yes, No and Maybe, I wouldn't frame the results as "Group B has more diversity of thought" unless I obviously had some agenda behind it because that's not the conclusion nor what the people who wrote the study even said.

Do better man you've been here long enough



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

Doctors know about chromosomes and the human body obviously. You know I meant that, but you choose to misrepresent what I say just to make me look stupid. So I think we are done here.

I think there is a flower outside who thinks its a tree. You as a biochemist should go out and assure it that it can be a tree if it really wants to.

"

While there isn't one definitive "poll" that captures every aspect of how doctors differentiate between sex and gender, various sources shed light on how medical professionals approach this crucial distinction in healthcare:
1. Defining sex and gender in medicine
  • "Sex" refers to biological differences (chromosomes, hormones, anatomy), while "gender" encompasses socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society at a given time considers appropriate for men and women.
  • The terms sex and gender are often used interchangeably, even though they should not be, according to the American Medical Women's Association.
  • It's important to recognize that both sex and gender can influence health and illness and are often intertwined. 
2. Importance in research and clinical practice
  • Clear differentiation between sex and gender is essential for effective tracking of gender equity initiatives in public health, according to the National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov).
  • Medical hypotheses and practices need to consider the effects of both sex and gender to improve health outcomes.
  • Gender medicine aims to include both biological and sociocultural dimensions when considering their effects on women and men to improve health and health care. 
3. Acknowledging diversity and challenges
  • Individuals may not conform to prevailing gender norms, and some may identify with a gender that differs from their assigned sex at birth.
  • Transgender and nonbinary individuals represent further complexities in the intersection of sex and gender.
  • Collecting and analyzing data on sex and gender necessitates acknowledging and capturing this diversity to understand how these factors affect health within and across different settings. 
4. Addressing disparities and advancing healthcare
  • A deeper understanding of how sex and gender (and gender identity) impact health is vital to addressing health disparities and tailoring interventions to meet diverse needs.
  • It's critical to consider the distinctions between sex and gender in health data collection, analysis, and reporting to make progress toward gender equality and health equity, says the National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov).
  • Using a two-step process in health data collection – capturing data on sex assigned at birth and separately on self-reported gender – is recommended to better characterize these distinct constructs. 
In conclusion, polling doctors on the nuanced distinction between sex and gender would likely reveal a shared understanding of their individual roles in health and a commitment to integrating this knowledge into research and patient care to improve health outcomes for all."
I'll just leave this here if you decide to stand behind your arguments and not just run away. 

While there isn't one definitive "poll" that captures every aspect of how doctors differentiate between sex and gender

AKA we couldnt find one that was not overwhelmingly one sided.



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KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

"

While there isn't one definitive "poll" that captures every aspect of how doctors differentiate between sex and gender, various sources shed light on how medical professionals approach this crucial distinction in healthcare:
1. Defining sex and gender in medicine
  • "Sex" refers to biological differences (chromosomes, hormones, anatomy), while "gender" encompasses socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society at a given time considers appropriate for men and women.
  • The terms sex and gender are often used interchangeably, even though they should not be, according to the American Medical Women's Association.
  • It's important to recognize that both sex and gender can influence health and illness and are often intertwined. 
2. Importance in research and clinical practice
  • Clear differentiation between sex and gender is essential for effective tracking of gender equity initiatives in public health, according to the National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov).
  • Medical hypotheses and practices need to consider the effects of both sex and gender to improve health outcomes.
  • Gender medicine aims to include both biological and sociocultural dimensions when considering their effects on women and men to improve health and health care. 
3. Acknowledging diversity and challenges
  • Individuals may not conform to prevailing gender norms, and some may identify with a gender that differs from their assigned sex at birth.
  • Transgender and nonbinary individuals represent further complexities in the intersection of sex and gender.
  • Collecting and analyzing data on sex and gender necessitates acknowledging and capturing this diversity to understand how these factors affect health within and across different settings. 
4. Addressing disparities and advancing healthcare
  • A deeper understanding of how sex and gender (and gender identity) impact health is vital to addressing health disparities and tailoring interventions to meet diverse needs.
  • It's critical to consider the distinctions between sex and gender in health data collection, analysis, and reporting to make progress toward gender equality and health equity, says the National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov).
  • Using a two-step process in health data collection – capturing data on sex assigned at birth and separately on self-reported gender – is recommended to better characterize these distinct constructs. 
In conclusion, polling doctors on the nuanced distinction between sex and gender would likely reveal a shared understanding of their individual roles in health and a commitment to integrating this knowledge into research and patient care to improve health outcomes for all."
I'll just leave this here if you decide to stand behind your arguments and not just run away. 

While there isn't one definitive "poll" that captures every aspect of how doctors differentiate between sex and gender

AKA we couldnt find one that was not overwhelmingly one sided.

You're right, I tried to find clear polling on your claim and couldn't just the general thinking from the AI. Do you have some evidence of your claim? 



...

Torillian said:
KLXVER said:

While there isn't one definitive "poll" that captures every aspect of how doctors differentiate between sex and gender

AKA we couldnt find one that was not overwhelmingly one sided.

You're right, I tried to find clear polling on your claim and couldn't just the general thinking from the AI. Do you have some evidence of your claim? 

I cant find one either. There are talk of them, but never any actual poll. Its difficult when words change meanings. Like queer doesnt mean what it meant like 10 years ago, so its difficult to find older polls of certain subjects. Gender doesnt really have a meaning anymore. Its just whatever you think it is, it is.



ArchangelMadzz said:

Why are we using the framing of right wing weirdos on a study that doesn't make such claim?

This was mapping the responses to 8 questions:
Should abortion be illegal?
Should the government take steps to make incomes more equal?
Should all unauthorized immigrants be sent back to their home country?
Should the federal budget for welfare programs be increased?
Should lesbian, gay, and trans couples be allowed to legally marry?
Should the government regulate business to protect the environment?
Should the federal government make it more difficult to buy a gun?
Should the federal government make a concerted effort to improve social and economic conditions for African Americans?


This is just an indication on responses to these questions and nothing else.
*the claim "the right has more diversity of thought than the left" isn't even asserted by the study itself*

If I asked 1000 people a question on "should slavery come back" and group A all said no and group B had a wide range of Yes, No and Maybe, I wouldn't frame the results as "Group B has more diversity of thought" unless I obviously had some agenda behind it because that's not the conclusion nor what the people who wrote the study even said.

Do better man you've been here long enough

I must say, I did not read the questions. In a poll like this answers are often determined in how the question is asked. Just for having a little fun, let's rephrase some of them.

Should abortion be illegal?
Should killing unborn babies be legal?

Should the government take steps to make incomes more equal?
Should government raise taxes to fund wealth transfer

Should all unauthorized immigrants be sent back to their home country?
Should immigration laws need to be uphold?

Should the federal budget for welfare programs be increased?
Should citizens dependence on welfare programs increase?

Should lesbian, gay, and trans couples be allowed to legally marry?
-can't make anything different on this, but my answer would be Yes-

Should the government regulate business to protect the environment?
Should government actively nanny and disrupt entrepreneurship over random environmental concerns? 

Should the federal government make it more difficult to buy a gun?
Should the government restrict the second amendment?

Should the federal government make a concerted effort to improve social and economic conditions for African Americans?
Should the government single out one community over others to improve their social and economic conditions?

This is just in jest. Don't know if the results of the poll would be different or not.



KLXVER said:
Torillian said:

Something being a widely accepted truth doesn't necessitate it being a fact. Personally I tend to go with the consensus of experts that study these topics their entire lives rather than crowd sourcing. Likely goes with my profession, but I value expertise highly in fields which I am not well versed. 

Do you? Or do you just go with the consensus of the experts that allign more with your own beliefs? Because actual experts(not some random person who wrote a book and has a degree in some BS human behaviour science) the vast majority of actual doctors and scientists believe that your chromosomes dictade your gender.

I don't know how it is in US, but in Brazil the overwhelmingly majority of doctors and biologists agrees sex and gender are different things, one being physical and the other being more psychological. That's why they, as community, support gender reassignment and surgery to change secondary sexual characteristics like adding/removing breasts 

The argument is pretty simple, just because something in social doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's like race. There is 0 biological and genetic evidence humans have subraces, but people still think we have different races because of things like skin color or the format of the eyes, and those believes create the concept of race because in practice people will treat races as a real thing 



IcaroRibeiro said:
KLXVER said:

Do you? Or do you just go with the consensus of the experts that allign more with your own beliefs? Because actual experts(not some random person who wrote a book and has a degree in some BS human behaviour science) the vast majority of actual doctors and scientists believe that your chromosomes dictade your gender.

I don't know how it is in US, but in Brazil the overwhelmingly majority of doctors and biologists agrees sex and gender are different things, one being physical and the other being more psychological. That's why they, as community, support gender reassignment and surgery to change secondary sexual characteristics like adding/removing breasts 

The argument is pretty simple, just because something in social doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's like race. There is 0 biological and genetic evidence humans have subraces, but people still think we have different races because of things like skin color or the format of the eyes, and those believes create the concept of race because in practice people will treat races as a real thing 

So what is the difference between gender and sex?