Jumpin said:

“I'm afraid you're quite mistaken. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god or gods.

Definition of Religion:

1. The belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers, regarded as creating and governing the universe.
   "respect for religion."
2. A particular variety of such belief, especially when organized into a system of doctrine and practice.
   "the world's many religions."
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

Atheism isn't any of these. In fact, atheism precludes belief in religion, leaving adherence to religion as nothing more than social obligation.”

Here’s my response:

Thanks for your reply. A “lack of belief in a god or gods”…IS a belief. But let’s not argue semantics here. If you don’t want atheism to be identified as a “religion,” that’s fine. But it definitely is a worldview. You have beliefs regarding the origin of the universe, the origin of life, how you are to live life here on earth, and what happens to you when you die. These beliefs color your perspective on life and impact what you think & do everyday. That is a worldview, and you have one.

You also have a god…that god is YOU. As a professed atheist, you have rejected the one true God of the Bible who made the universe & you. And He revealed Himself to you through the Bible (specifically) and creation & conscience (generally). As an atheist, you have instead decided that He doesn’t exist, and you are not beholden to Him. Rather, you’ve made the decision to live your life according to your own rules & desires. That makes you the “god” of your life.

Even though I don’t know you, I love you with a Godly love. I will pray for you (and others on this thread), that God will do a work in your life to draw you to Him. Perhaps you will soften your heart and let Him in. He will not force Himself on you, because that is not love. You have been blessed with a free will, and only you can choose to accept Him or not. Here are a few verses from the Bible that may you may find useful. And remember, these are the very words of God (written by men but inspired by the Holy Spirit).

“The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools…Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie…Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy…they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them…But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.” (Romans 1:18-2:5).

“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. For in him we live and move and have our being.” (Acts 17:24-28).

If thats your definition of rejection of science, then everybody has some form of rejection of science. Its completely impossible to not have some form of personal belief that isn't published in scientific journals. Be it parallel universes, aliens, Matrix-like simulations, astrology or whatever floats your boat.

You mentioned LGBTQI, I have wondered if that makes it hard for evolution to be true since two people of the same gender cannot reproduce, hence the "gay gene" cannot be passed from one generation to the next. From an evolution standpoint, it is hard to explain it.

As for cancer (among other things), God created a challenging life here on earth, not an easy one. Heaven is the easy life, Earth is the hard life. Ironically, people who have easy lives here on earth tend to be less religious than people who have hard lives. Look how hard life is for the people of Afghanistan, yet they are one of the most religious societies on Earth. Meanwhile Sweden has one of the most easiest lifestyles on Earth, yet they are mostly non-religious. Hard lives make people more religious, not less. Just ask the people of Afghanistan.

The worst crimes were committed by non religious people. Explain that.

Pemalite said “Atheism is the disbelief/rejection in the existence of God or Gods as the burden of proof has not been met.”

Here’s my response:

It is true that the Christian cannot prove the existence of God. But the atheist cannot prove the non-existence of God either. If a person is truly seeking after the truth, then he or she will weigh all of the available evidence and make a faith-based judgment.

You cannot escape having faith. The atheist has faith, and the Christian has faith. As I said, neither of us was around when the universe began and when life began. We both have beliefs regarding what happened. And we both have access to the same facts/evidence/data.

I believe, after examining all of the information available to us, that my Christian worldview represents a “reasonable” faith. I believe the atheist worldview represents an “unreasonable” faith. I don’t have time or space to go through all of my supporting arguments, but I will touch upon a few, and I challenge Pemalite (or any other atheist to respond to them).

First, how is it possible that we even have a universe? Everything can’t come from nothing. Only nothing comes from nothing. Where did all of the matter come from? Where did all of the energy come from? Where did the fabric of space come from? Where did the laws of nature come from? Where did the elements come from? Why do each of the elements exhibit uniformity across the universe (i.e., carbon acts like carbon, hydrogen acts like hydrogen)? I believe an all-powerful, all-knowing, personal God who exists outside of time and space created the universe. I’d love to hear how the atheist explains the existence of the universe.

Second, not only does the universe exist, it is highly improbable and finely-tuned. There are over 20 constants in nature (e.g., gravity, speed of light, strong nuclear force) that must be  set exactly right in order for the universe to exist. For example, if gravity was just a fraction of a percent stronger, the expanding universe would collapse upon itself. This is just one example out of over 20. The probability that all of these constants just so happen to be spot on, is infinitesimal. Our universe is not only vast & majestic…it is also highly improbable and has the clear appearance of design. It clearly screams for the existence of a brilliant creator God.

Lastly, we have the existence of life. Our bodies are so amazingly complex. Did our skeleton just come about on its own? What about our nervous system? What about our muscles? What about the circulatory system? What about our amazing organs (e.g., lungs, heart, liver, kidneys, etc.)? What about our eyes and hands and feet? What about our brains? The human body is so astonishingly complex & wonderfully made. Does the atheist really believe that the body just created itself through time and chance? Really? We look at a watch and use common sense to conclude that it was designed & manufactured by humans. We look at a car or video game or Mt. Rushmore or a paper clip and come to the same conclusion. It’s obvious! So why does the atheist look at the human body, which is at least a million (if not a billion) times more complex, and conclude that it created itself…rather than that it was “designed & manufactured” by a brilliant God?

I just finished reading Terry Pratchet's Small Gods again today, the man has so many astute observations and can put it all into a great comedy tale as well. The best observation is how religion gets perverted by men and belief of a deity turns into the belief or rather fear of the church to control the masses.

Religion is at its best when it promotes community, opposite to anonymity, as in you see how people turn into arseholes in 'social' media. The worst when religion becomes an echo chamber convinced they're right and everyone else is wrong or inferior.

But all that happens without religion as well.


As for the big three:

Christianity: Christian egalitarianism, a theological perspective within Christianity, asserts that all people are equal in fundamental worth and moral status, drawing from the concept of being created in God's image (Imago Dei).

Islam: Islam emphasizes the equality of all people in the eyes of God (Allah), despite natural differences in abilities or circumstances.

Buddhism: While some Buddhist texts might have differing views, overall Buddhism is considered an egalitarian religion, with the belief that all beings should be valued and treated with fairness.

It's tribalism that's the real culprit.

Pemalite said:

“There is the same amount of evidence for Aliens as there is for your particular God... That is zero, zilch, nada.

Richard Dawkins doesn't assert that Aliens exist.”

Here’s my response:

Check out this video. In his own words, Dawkins postulates that aliens seeded life on earth. Ridley Scott actually picked up on this atheistic concept in his movie Prometheus. The important takeaway for me from Dawkins’ inadvertent admission is that even simple life is incredibly complex and highly improbable without the aid of an intelligent creator. Dawkins knows life can’t create itself, but he can’t bring himself to acknowledge or worship God. It’s a heart issue, not a head issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDvaPzg32W8

Where did God come from?

The universe is 13 billion years old (current estimate as far as can be seen back), The earth is 4.5 billion years old. Life on Earth started 3.5 billion years ago. Homo Sapiens has only been around for 200 to 300 thousand years. 

It took evolution 3,499,700,000 years to come up with Homo Sapiens.

A scientist sees natural selection at work to make gradual changes, sees how similar our DNA is to all other species, sees evolution written inside DNA and are now experimenting making changes in DNA (for better and worse)

I've done simulations with virtual DNA in university. Yes, natural selection can program 'DNA', quite well actually. All it needs is survival of the fittest and lots of time (generations). Evolution hasn't stopped either. If man was created in God's image, why are humans still changing.

Pemalite said:

“Religion is responsible for the deaths of millions/billions and even attempts at genocide. (Case in point with today with the entire Iran vs Israel debacle which is Islam vs Judaism.)

You only need to read the middle-eastern abrahamic texts that form the basis of Judaism (Torah), Christianity (Bible), Islam (Quran) to see it's not a peaceful and morally right religious basis, it's full of slavery ownership, stoning of children, abuse, damnation, bigotry, judgement, war and more.

Atheism has none of this influence.
If an Atheist is engaging in murder, it's not because their religion told them so, it's because they were mentally troubled... And THAT is the difference here. (Although anyone using a religious book to justify their morally corrupt actions I would argue are also mentally troubled.)”

Pemalite also said:

“Actually there are over 10,000 distinct religions in the world.

Even with your particular cult, there is over 5,000 denominations... That's right, 5,000+ distinct christian groups who don't even agree about their own religion.
And you expect Atheists to believe you?

If your God is going to punish anyone, then your God is not worthy of worship.
I have dedicated my life to saving and helping others, if that means I go to your religions unproven and hypothetical "Hell" - Then your God is an immoral monster.”

Here is my response:

The word “morality” has no basis in meaning to the atheist. Neither do the words “good” or “evil” or “right” or “wrong.” If an atheist has an opinion regarding a moral issue, then it is merely his opinion. And he has no basis for saying his opinion is “morally right” and someone else’s opinion is “morally wrong.”

After all, the atheist is a naturalist. Life is just “molecules in motion” and “atoms in action.” What element told you that murder is wrong? Was it oxygen? Was it carbon? Was it hydrogen? That’s 95% of the elements in your body right there.

Who are you, as an atheist, to say that Hitler & the holocaust were wrong? Who are you to say that stoning or bigotry or slavery are evil? You can have an opinion, but suppose someone else has a different opinion? Who are you to say that you are right, and they are wrong?

Only the Christian who believes in the God of the Bible can appeal to absolute morality. This is because God is not only a brilliant, powerful Creator…He is also holy and just and righteous and loving. And He communicates to us His moral precepts in the Bible and in our conscience. That’s why most people across cultures, even if they’ve never picked up a Bible, instinctively know that murder & rape & slavery & lying & cheating & stealing & racism are wrong.

Now mankind is utterly sinful, as taught in the Bible, so he still commits these atrocities and sins on a regular basis…some worse than others. But we all fall short of the glory of God, and we all are sinners in need of a savior. And at the judgment, we are either going to rely on ourselves to save us, or we are going to rely on Jesus Christ to save us.

If we choose to rely on ourselves, then we are dead to rights. We will spend eternity in the lake of fire. And we will have no one to blame but ourself. God does not send us to hell. We send ourselves there. If you hate/deny God on earth, you would be miserable in heaven.

But if you are humble enough to admit your sin & are truly seeking after forgiveness, then God, in His loving forbearance, sent His son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins. And Jesus is the only way to salvation. There is no other religion or cult or worldview by which mankind can be saved. But if someone decides to make Jesus Christ his Lord & Savior, then he is a new creation in Christ, and he can look forward to eternity in heaven with God!

Here are some relevant Bible verses for the atheist (and really anyone) to consider:

“Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many.” (Hebrews 9:27-28)

“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:8-9)

 “There is no one righteous, not even one.” (Romans 3:10)

 “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23)

 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)

 “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)

 “This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.” (1 John 4:9-10)

 Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6)

 “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)

 Jesus said, “I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in.” (Revelation 3:20)

“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.” (Acts 16:31)

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

“God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.” (John 3:17-18)

“If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9)

“Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death - even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Philippians 2:5-11)

It's not my definition. It's THE definition.

I don't reject science and I will -always- change my views to align with science.

Things like parallel universes, aliens, matrix-like simulations, astrology etc'.  If it's supported by science, it's supported by evidence.
If not, then those claims can be rejected.

...Just like your God claim can be rejected.

1) Two people of the same gender CAN reproduce. 
I have a child, with a lesbian couple. A turkey baster is a fantastic thing.

2) Homosexuality, although you may think it's paradoxical from a reproductive aspect, does offer some indirect advantages for evolution. - I.E. In a paternal capacity to increase the survivability of group dynamics.

It's not hard to explain... And certainly more explainable than just "God did it".

Challenging? That's an understatement.

It's borderline pathological murder if your God is hypothetically responsible for life.

I would argue that religion alone is responsible for making life harder in less developed nations, not the other way around.

Religion in Afghanistan is responsible for the lack of women's rights for example.

The world would be better off without religious cults in it, I am a firm believer in that.

This is a logical fallacy.

You cannot disprove:
1) The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
2) The Tooth Fairy.
3) Father Christmas.
4) Easter Bunny.
5) Leprechauns.
6) Vampires.
7) Werewolves.
8) Big Foot.

And just because you cannot disprove them, doesn't make it real.

...And all these "things" have one thing in common with your particular God. They cannot be proven.

Faith by it's very definition is blind belief without evidence... As an Atheist that is not something I adhere to.

You are correct that neither of us were around when the Universe began... But unlike your false God, there is evidence of when the Universe began.. Such as the Cosmic Microwave Background or CMB for short.

We know when life began because again... Evidence. We have fossils we have radiometric dating and more.
We don't have evidence of your false God.

None of this requires "faith". - This just requires you to look at the evidence.

Your belief is is not reasonable as you are not basing your belief on evidence or facts.

This is the first mistake you are making... Just because -you- don't understand something, doesn't mean "god did it".

Secondly... It is PERFECTLY FINE to say "I don't know" because there isn't enough evidence, the laws of physics does start to break down at the singularity and time starts to no longer exist in the conventional sense.

Thirdly... If nothing can't come from nothing, then your God must have come from nothing? 

Fourthly... Elements are made of Atoms which in turn are made from Protons, Neutrons and Electrons.
When the big bang energy started to disperse and cool as the universe expanded, they started to coalesce into various atoms which consist of Protons, Neutrons and Electrons.

And there is evidence for this.

Did they not teach you this basic stuff in school?

Science class is important.

The universe is not finely tuned.

It's extremely violent and inhospitable.

Our Galaxy for example is eventually going to collide with another and the gravitational disturbance that will create will be extremely impressive.

Also... Gravity is based on mass, the more mass you have, the greater the gravitational force... And there are areas of the universe where gravity is stronger and weaker than other areas.
For example a singularity has gravity so extreme, that light starts to warp, bend and is unable to escape it.

There is no design, we evolved to the current conditions... Using the excuse "God did it" because you lack a fundamental understanding of the universe is a pretty piss poor excuse.

Our bodies are the result of Evolution and natural selection.

Our bodies are extremely fragile and are extremely prone to failure via accidents, illness or otherwise.

Our visual acuity is also extremely limited... Did you know we can only perceive 0.0035% of the entire electromagnetic spectrum? Other species can see far more.


The hilarious part is, it's due to us being so weak and frail, that I have a job and get customers.

Again, watch the video. Dawkins doesn't state "Aliens did it".
That video is also stupid as it cuts out parts of the interview to forward the religious cultist propaganda rather than keep things in the interviewed context.

He was postulating a hypothesis... And if you actually watch Dawkins other videos he makes other potential hypothesis as to how life was to "come about" on this planet. Again, this isn't admission he believes those hypothesis or he believes in God... Rather the opposite.

Again... No evidence of your God exists, so we can discard your particular cults God-claim.

Your God murders babies.

I save babies.

I have the moral high ground over your God... And you want to try and ridicule me on my lack of morals? Are you that naive?

The Bible is the claim and not evidence.

Your Bible verses are about as useful as toilet paper when you have explosive diarrhea.