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Forums - Politics - Rise of Atheism, discussion of pro-atheist topics, and disavowal of the 3 abramic faiths

KratosLives said:

The worse society gets, you can attribute that to decline of religious morals.

Every study we have done tends to show the exact opposite and that by most objective measures of societal health, the more secular a society is the better.



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JackHandy said:
JWeinCom said:

Well... we've seen Christians protesting the funerals of gay soldiers... Muslims decapitating teachers for showing an image of a pedophilic alleged prophet... Christians bombing abortion clinics... Catholics discouraging condom use and increasing the spread of aids in Africa... Jewish settlers continuing to exacerbate issues in the middle east... muslims using gang rape as a form of punishment... the Catholic shuffling known pedophiles around the country to enable them to continue their child abuse unimpeded, and so on so forth.

So, while I have found that generally atheists are far appropriate when spreading their beliefs (never had atheists come to my door or try to convert me on a train or on the street while that's happened many times with religious folks) even if they are loud and mocking I still don't think they're the problem. 

Do you know how many atheists have been serial/mass murderers throughout the 19th-21st century? The numbers are staggering. Yet, I doubt you would claim it was fair for people of faith to go out and attack every atheist they see because of this. And with good reason: it's not fair. So too, is it unfair to do the same to people of faith when one of theirs looses their mind and blows up an abortion clinic. They clearly were sick in the head and weren't practicing what they preach.

People just need to leave each other alone. Both sides.

I am doubtful that athests are overrepresented in the mass murderer department, but please feel free to show evidence that atheists are more likely to commit murder. 

The key difference though is that all of the examples I gave were people doing heinous things either specifically because of their religion or at least enabled by their religion.

Women in Saudi Arabia can't walk around in public as they wish specifically because of their religion. Women in Pakistan get gang raped if they are imodest because of their religion. A french teacher was beheaded specifically because of religion. Gay kids are kicked out of their houses specifically because of their religion. People are literally killed for leaving a religion. 

You picked the low hanging fruit of abortion clinic bombings because all of the other examples are too large to explain by simply saying its a few bad apples. The Catholic Church was engaged in a literal child sex trafficking conspiracy. Thousands of cases and doubtlessly many more that never came to light. And the church deliberately covered it up. Not a few bad apples.

86% of the people of Egypt believe that people should be put to death for leaving Islam. That is over 80 million people. Not a few bad apples. Either most Egyptians are just vile people on a genetic level, or something is influencing them to hold grossly immoral beliefs.

For hundreds if not thousands of years, the caste system of India doomed millions to a shit life from the day they were born based on Hindu beliefs. Not a few bad apples or random psychos. These are large scale societal problems where religion is obviously a major factor. 

So, no, it's not both sides. Of course, atheists do bad things. But we have simply not seen the type of widescale nationwide and global attrocities attributable to atheism as we can see with religion. We just see them being loud and obnoxious sometimes. 

P.S.

It's interesting to see how many people are coming to a specifically pro atheist thread to be loud and obnoxious about their religion. I wonder if a pro-Christianity thread were made if atheists on the forums would be equally obnoxious about it.

TheTitaniumNub said:

Atheism, Satanism, and Christianity are the 3 silliest religions that exist, that people take serious anyways. I'm agnostic personally, the safe religion.

Under most common usages, atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive. I identify as either. I do not believe there is a god or gods, so I am an atheist. I do not know that for a fact (although I'm pretty convinced depending on how you define god) so I identify as agnostic. 

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 25 June 2025

Summerset said:
KratosLives said:

The worse society gets, you can attribute that to decline of religious morals.

Perhaps the truly disturbing thought isn't society's declining morality, but the notion that some people apparently require supernatural babysitting just to avoid being terrible human beings

Call it how you like, but atleast with religion, for the majority of faith, there is inherent good teachings instilled from family onto kids, morals that last a lifetime. Which schools don't do a great job of with the same effort.  Sure there are good atheist people, but I bet the majority doesn't put the same effort with a huge established system of support in the community to teach what is right, and through examples. 



KratosLives said:
Summerset said:

Perhaps the truly disturbing thought isn't society's declining morality, but the notion that some people apparently require supernatural babysitting just to avoid being terrible human beings

Call it how you like, but atleast with religion, for the majority of faith, there is inherent good teachings instilled from family onto kids, morals that last a lifetime. Which schools don't do a great job of with the same effort.  Sure there are good atheist people, but I bet the majority doesn't put the same effort with a huge established system of support in the community to teach what is right, and through examples. 

I mean, depending on who's doing the teaching, a lot of these "good teachings" in religious societies include stuff like murdering gay people and rape victims, child marriage, genital mutilation, etc.



curl-6 said:
KratosLives said:

Call it how you like, but atleast with religion, for the majority of faith, there is inherent good teachings instilled from family onto kids, morals that last a lifetime. Which schools don't do a great job of with the same effort.  Sure there are good atheist people, but I bet the majority doesn't put the same effort with a huge established system of support in the community to teach what is right, and through examples. 

I mean, depending on who's doing the teaching, a lot of these "good teachings" in religious societies include stuff like murdering gay people and rape victims, child marriage, genital mutilation, etc.

So it's not the religion thats bad but the people .  A debate can go on for a while, such as has religion done more good than bad.  To me the ratio is probably a million to one. Theres way more good being done on a daily basis than bad. But even if you were to take away religion, it does stop the messed up people doing stupid sad things.  You eliminate religious cults, and others pop up not relating to the 3 main religions. I think it will be a scarier world to be honest.



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KratosLives said:
curl-6 said:

I mean, depending on who's doing the teaching, a lot of these "good teachings" in religious societies include stuff like murdering gay people and rape victims, child marriage, genital mutilation, etc.

So it's not the religion thats bad but the people .  A debate can go on for a while, such as has religion done more good than bad.  To me the ratio is probably a million to one. Theres way more good being done on a daily basis than bad. But even if you were to take away religion, it does stop the messed up people doing stupid sad things.  You eliminate religious cults, and others pop up not relating to the 3 main religions. I think it will be a scarier world to be honest.

Sorry, but you’re completely out of your mind. Vast amounts of wars, terrorism and persecution have their entire basis in religion. That includes Chrtiantity as well that’s responsible for things like the crusades. 



KratosLives said:
curl-6 said:

I mean, depending on who's doing the teaching, a lot of these "good teachings" in religious societies include stuff like murdering gay people and rape victims, child marriage, genital mutilation, etc.

So it's not the religion thats bad but the people .  A debate can go on for a while, such as has religion done more good than bad.  To me the ratio is probably a million to one. Theres way more good being done on a daily basis than bad. But even if you were to take away religion, it does stop the messed up people doing stupid sad things.  You eliminate religious cults, and others pop up not relating to the 3 main religions. I think it will be a scarier world to be honest.

That's my point; religion is not inherently bad, but neither is it inherently good.

Morality is independent of religion.



JamesCantu said:

Truth be told, all of the atheists I have ever met have not really taken the time to think about whether what they believe is actually true & makes sense. Rather, they quickly adopt it, because they love the fact that they can live their life with moral impunity, and they use it as a “coping mechanism,” so they don’t have to worry about a divine judgment in the afterlife (even though it will happen, & they will be condemned to hell for all of eternity). They can sleep with whomever they want. They can put whatever chemicals they want into their body. And they can have all of the fun they want. It”s basically “sex, drugs, and rock & roll” with no one to tell them “no.” They make themselves the “lord of their life.”

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 25 June 2025

Jumpin said:
JackHandy said:

Do you know how many atheists have been serial/mass murderers throughout the 19th-21st century? The numbers are staggering. Yet, I doubt you would claim it was fair for people of faith to go out and attack every atheist they see because of this. And with good reason: it's not fair. So too, is it unfair to do the same to people of faith when one of theirs looses their mind and blows up an abortion clinic. They clearly were sick in the head and weren't practicing what they preach.

People just need to leave each other alone. Both sides.

On the other hand, attacking abortion clinics are doing so precisely because they are motivated by the anti-abortion values of their religion.

In no Bible will you find Christ commanding the death of doctors, or the killing of anyone. These are mentally-ill people and should be judged independently, just as all people should be judged independently, including atheists.

If Christians behaved the way they were suppose to behave, you would consider them the nicest, most loving people on the face of the earth.

Last edited by JackHandy - on 25 June 2025

JackHandy said:
Jumpin said:

On the other hand, attacking abortion clinics are doing so precisely because they are motivated by the anti-abortion values of their religion.

In no Bible will you find Christ commanding the death of doctors, or the killing of anyone. These are mentally-ill people and should be judged independently, just as all people should be judged independently, including atheists.

If Christians behaved the way they were suppose to behave, you would consider them the nicest, most loving people on the face of the earth.

Well... The Bible does say:

2 Chronicles 15:13"That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

Yes it's the old testament... But, the laws in the old testament are still binding.

Luke 16:17
“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.”

The Bible is full of immoral stuff...

For example:
Deuteronomy 22:28
"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."

Basically God in the Bible enables the marriage of a rape victim onto their attacker. - And there are hundreds of similar morally corrupt examples all throughout the texts. (But also some positive stuff as well, just can't ignore the negative.)

And this is the foundation of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions, it's morally corrupt and evil in my eyes.

Thankfully most Christian denominations pick and choose what parts of the Bible to preach and tend to ignore the negative commands the Bible puts forward... But it does rear it's ugly head in social issues like LGBTQI and womens rights. (I.E. Abortion, same sex marriage etc'.)
...And of course is often used as a justification for war and violence. See: Lord Kony and the Lords Republic Army which would recruit children and make them soldiers in order to try and turn Uganada into a Theocratic nation based on the 10 commandments in the Bible.

I am of the belief that there needs to be freedom of religion, but that also has the implied right of freedom FROM religion, religion is a personal choice and shouldn't influence, interfere or overrule politics or civil rights like Same-Sex Marriage, Abortion, Science and Technology and more.



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