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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox - Trojan Horse Strategy

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Wman1996 said:

The gaming industry can be very unpredictable at times. But if you look at what has sold hardware and software, I don't see how putting most or all recent and upcoming Microsoft games on PlayStation and possibly Nintendo helps.
There is a niche (compared to PlayStation and Nintendo) audience at this point of those who buy an Xbox. That's because many know of Day and Date on PC, and they know of the exclusives on Nintendo and some exclusives and timed exclusives on PlayStation.
As much as the industry is changing, I really do think it would take quality true exclusives to Xbox hardware (from Microsoft and third parties) and timed exclusives (not even on PC) to bring Xbox sales around Xbox One or better ever again.

Who says this strategy is to outsell the competition? The strategy is to give MS/Xbox users the value over other options. With more games going multiplat creates more revenue for Xbox which in turn, reinvests back into GP allowing the service to continue offering the best deals.

This isn't directed at you but the issue with the internet is everyone thinks it is some sort of sales race, and that may be the goal for some brands but not for all brands. 

Example: Valve created the Steamdeck, that wasn't meant to outsell the Switch, but to gain more customers for Steam in the console handheld/console space. The Xbox hardware is no different. It's not meant to outsell the Switch or PS, it's there to get customers for GamePass etc. Maybe the old Xbox model like the 360 had different goals, but based on how much they lost money on the 360, that's why the shift to digital and services become its primary goal.



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Last edited by Manlytears - on 04 March 2025

Azzanation said:
SvennoJ said:

The good old, embrace, extend, extinguish.

MS tried, embraced the console market with the XBox, extended with XBox Live, tried to extinguish competitors with Gamepass and buying up publishers. It didn't work and now MS is flailing. They can't hit hard since too many people enjoy Nintendo and Sony games. MS can only shoot themselves in the foot as we see happening now.

Your peanuts cost $240 a year and lose access to everything if you stop paying. PSN is now $80 a year, 2 full price games to keep forever a year to balance it out. Reality is, most people don't play a lot of games, they play a few online games a lot.



"Forth point: literally waiting years to play old games while paying premium prices for early access is not a W you think it is."

That's what XBox is right now. Waiting years to play old Sony games on PC, while paying a premium subscription for early access of MS games.

Meanwhile if you wait a few months, games are much cheaper, further finished and less buggy.

People are not buying Xboxes to play PS games, if that's what they want then they clearly made the wrong choice in life.

I wouldnt want to wait 6 months or years to play the next Halo or Gears, the secruity of Xbox is you are garenteed these games at launch and not second guessing if the game will come and when.

Any game you purchase digitally you don't technically own, the only difference here is GP charges you $240 a year where otherwise you are paying $500 plus a year and not including the Online subscription. Huge difference.

There are a lot more people making 'the wrong choice' in life rather than chase after Gears and Halo...
 
Halo has proven it's better to wait 6 months (or more) before playing it. Don't need guaranteed beta testing games at launch early access. Buying / playing games at launch is at your own peril nowadays. (I still do it to support devs that make good games, but then wait to play them until the patches have settled)

Any games you purchase digitally are (99.9% of the cases) never removed from your ability to re-download them. Physical you can even resell or buy 2nd hand for much less than $240 a year. Then there are plenty FTP online games you don't need to pay online subscription for. You can just buy the console and play those forever without spending another dime. (Including Halo Infinite Multiplayer)


Anyway if you enjoy the games on GamePass and nothing else then that's indeed the best value. Reality is, 87% of the market enjoy other games that are not on GamePass. 150 million Switch, 75 million PS5, 34 million GamePass subscribers (year old number, can't find more recent)



SvennoJ said:
Azzanation said:

People are not buying Xboxes to play PS games, if that's what they want then they clearly made the wrong choice in life.

I wouldnt want to wait 6 months or years to play the next Halo or Gears, the secruity of Xbox is you are garenteed these games at launch and not second guessing if the game will come and when.

Any game you purchase digitally you don't technically own, the only difference here is GP charges you $240 a year where otherwise you are paying $500 plus a year and not including the Online subscription. Huge difference.

There are a lot more people making 'the wrong choice' in life rather than chase after Gears and Halo...
 
Halo has proven it's better to wait 6 months (or more) before playing it. Don't need guaranteed beta testing games at launch early access. Buying / playing games at launch is at your own peril nowadays. (I still do it to support devs that make good games, but then wait to play them until the patches have settled)

Any games you purchase digitally are (99.9% of the cases) never removed from your ability to re-download them. Physical you can even resell or buy 2nd hand for much less than $240 a year. Then there are plenty FTP online games you don't need to pay online subscription for. You can just buy the console and play those forever without spending another dime. (Including Halo Infinite Multiplayer)


Anyway if you enjoy the games on GamePass and nothing else then that's indeed the best value. Reality is, 87% of the market enjoy other games that are not on GamePass. 150 million Switch, 75 million PS5, 34 million GamePass subscribers (year old number, can't find more recent)

This isn't just about Halo and Gears. If you want to wait to play these games at launch when all the buzz happens then they can wait it out, but nothing has been comfirmed to crossover outside of rumours. Infinite has been out for years and it still hasn't got a release date for other consoles. How long do people have to wait to play Halo? 

You cannot argue the value of GP. Indiana Jones, Avowed, Doom, South if Midnight to buy on another platform if they cross over, you are paying $70. GP, no extra fee, play them all on release and purchase later when on sale. 

You buy an Xbox for value and the secruity of Xbox games garenteed at launch.



Azzanation said:

...Xbox fanboy nonsense....

Just Stop.

The entire "Trojan Horse" idea has already played out and didn't actually work.

When Microsoft moved the PlayStation Minecraft port away from the Legacy version, and into the Bedrock edition; the game required a Microsoft account to access many of the games features.

That was six years ago.

Forcing PlayStation players to create and use a Microsoft account has not had ANY effect on Xbox eco system player numbers.

So even though Microsoft enforced the "Trojan Horse" idea into their game with the largest player base, it didn't make a blind bit of difference.



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

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only777 said:
Azzanation said:

...Xbox fanboy nonsense....

Just Stop.

The entire "Trojan Horse" idea has already played out and didn't actually work.

When Microsoft moved the PlayStation Minecraft port away from the Legacy version, and into the Bedrock edition; the game required a Microsoft account to access many of the games features.

That was six years ago.

Forcing PlayStation players to create and use a Microsoft account has not had ANY effect on Xbox eco system player numbers.

So even though Microsoft enforced the "Trojan Horse" idea into their game with the largest player base, it didn't make a blind bit of difference.

Well they did get a bunch more Microsoft accounts out of it as I'm likely not the only one to migrate our Mojang accounts to dummy (standalone) MS accounts not to tie down our shared Minecraft worlds to one of our MS accounts...

But indeed, no effect on XBox eco system, just another hoop to jump through.

Rather the opposite, migration to Bedrock broke a lot of things in the Java version. The move got me out of Minecraft. MS did finally fix the conversion, no more large holes in my worlds, but the redstone logic is still fundamentally different in certain cases and I have too many (too compact) mechanisms to rebuild to care. Plus the slower minecart speed is boring lol. And throws off the timing of my mechanisms as well, cart getting stuck now in my animated rides :(
PS4 version still supports Java, so that's the one I've been sticking to. (Just to revisit now and then, desire to build on was extinguished)



Anyway this whole make an account stuff has been the MO of 3rd party developers since online gaming became popular. It didn't give EA/Ubisoft/R* etc any advantage. In fact the opposite, play the games less cause extra hoop.

It's always fun to try an old game again, recover login, recover backup email password, recover password, verification codes, disc life was so much easier! And with kids I'm managing all the logins and passwords so always get alerts from and verification codes for them in my inbox when they forget their passwords again. (And then the headache when they reset the password and don't write it down / lose it again ugh)

So yeah that Trojan horse is not quite shooting yourself in the foot, but definitely stubbing your toe. No benefit.



Actually tying your XBox account to MS account was a bigger damaging move imo. It's one of the reasons I prefer 3rd party titles on PS5 rather than Series X. My MS account has a secure password and I don't want it auto / easy logging in on Series X just in case the thing falls in the wrong hands. PSN account isn't that valuable so auto sign in is fine. But on XBox I have to enter a complicated password every time I want to play, extra hoop.
(Hence I migrated our Minecraft accounts to dummy MS accounts with simple passwords)

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 13 March 2025

Azzanation said:

Phil has stated that he wants to compete on sales based on hardware not software, basically meaning remove the exclusivity and allow customers to purchase the better hardware based on their needs, features, value and preferences. I could not agree more on this

The market agreed too, last generation when the PS4 was superior to the Xbone and cheaper and wasn't force bundled with a camera and also wasn't bogged down the entire generation with questions as to whether you can even rent games or buy used games for the console. As Papa Phil said, that was the most important generation because it was the gen where everyone built their digital libraries and MS blew that generation. So it won't really matter if Xbox has superior hardware. They have superior hardware right now and are getting trounced. Gamers don't want to start over, rebuilding their digital libraries because of a small hardware difference.

Furthermore, Xbox still needs to do a better job with the studios they have. Another reason the X|S failed to intrigue the market is there were no games for it. By the time the games came it was pretty much over. And don't get me wrong, Sony has been even worse this gen in terms of games, everything is a super safe sequel or a remake/remaster. But they have a lot of goodwill with customers, Xbox doesn't. Xbox does seem to have turned it around games wise. Indy and Avowed were both really good. South of Midnight looks great. Doom will be spectacular. Outer Worlds 2 later this year, if Avowed is any indication, will be great. Even their marketing deal games have been impressive. Stalker 2 was great. Expedition 33 looks really good. 2025 for GamePass has been incredible so far and isn't going to slow down.

But PS5 owners don't care about GamePass, and PS5 owners don't need to buy Xbox hardware to play any of these games. Would they have bought X|S hardware at the start of this gen, if MS had come out firing on all cylinders? Maybe, but that doesn't matter now. MS is now doing the only thing they can do if they want Xbox to stay afloat, they are maximizing their revenue. None of us know what this means for the future of Xbox hardware. Yes, we know another Xbox is coming, but is it even from Xbox, or it is a rebranded PC, compatible with Xbox and Steam? Is it a mass market price, or is it an enthusiasts price? I highly doubt it is mass market price.

There is no trojan horse here.



only777 said:
Azzanation said:

...Xbox fanboy nonsense....

Just Stop.

The entire "Trojan Horse" idea has already played out and didn't actually work.

When Microsoft moved the PlayStation Minecraft port away from the Legacy version, and into the Bedrock edition; the game required a Microsoft account to access many of the games features.

That was six years ago.

Forcing PlayStation players to create and use a Microsoft account has not had ANY effect on Xbox eco system player numbers.

So even though Microsoft enforced the "Trojan Horse" idea into their game with the largest player base, it didn't make a blind bit of difference.

MAUs means alot more then you think. It was never meant to change hardware sales, however 99% on this site fail to see it. If it meant nothing, they wouldn't waste time or resources on it, even Sony tried to cash in on it with Helldivars 2 on PC. These corps know what they want.

You only see the Trojan Horse as moving accounts.. its far greater then that. Its also internal marketing on competitive platforms, boosting revenue gain, being more attractive to 3rd party companies etc. It could also be a future strategy for the FTC and I am not talking about buyouts either. 

Bringing games to other platforms will put them in good faith, so if or when Xbox allows for 3rd party game stores on their hardware, companies like Sony might try and sue or stop it, but if MS are putting games on PS, their won't be much of an argument. MS are on the cusp of having hardware capable of playing everything. 

There are many layers to this. MS have agreed to continue with Xbox and they want to push even more hardware. You need to stop looking at this as 1 dementionial and start thinking 4D chess. 



LudicrousSpeed said:
Azzanation said:

Phil has stated that he wants to compete on sales based on hardware not software, basically meaning remove the exclusivity and allow customers to purchase the better hardware based on their needs, features, value and preferences. I could not agree more on this

The market agreed too, last generation when the PS4 was superior to the Xbone and cheaper and wasn't force bundled with a camera and also wasn't bogged down the entire generation with questions as to whether you can even rent games or buy used games for the console. As Papa Phil said, that was the most important generation because it was the gen where everyone built their digital libraries and MS blew that generation. So it won't really matter if Xbox has superior hardware. They have superior hardware right now and are getting trounced. Gamers don't want to start over, rebuilding their digital libraries because of a small hardware difference.

Furthermore, Xbox still needs to do a better job with the studios they have. Another reason the X|S failed to intrigue the market is there were no games for it. By the time the games came it was pretty much over. And don't get me wrong, Sony has been even worse this gen in terms of games, everything is a super safe sequel or a remake/remaster. But they have a lot of goodwill with customers, Xbox doesn't. Xbox does seem to have turned it around games wise. Indy and Avowed were both really good. South of Midnight looks great. Doom will be spectacular. Outer Worlds 2 later this year, if Avowed is any indication, will be great. Even their marketing deal games have been impressive. Stalker 2 was great. Expedition 33 looks really good. 2025 for GamePass has been incredible so far and isn't going to slow down.

But PS5 owners don't care about GamePass, and PS5 owners don't need to buy Xbox hardware to play any of these games. Would they have bought X|S hardware at the start of this gen, if MS had come out firing on all cylinders? Maybe, but that doesn't matter now. MS is now doing the only thing they can do if they want Xbox to stay afloat, they are maximizing their revenue. None of us know what this means for the future of Xbox hardware. Yes, we know another Xbox is coming, but is it even from Xbox, or it is a rebranded PC, compatible with Xbox and Steam? Is it a mass market price, or is it an enthusiasts price? I highly doubt it is mass market price.

There is no trojan horse here.

For starters, customers can buy into both eco Systems, and if you offer hardware capable of playing everything like a PC like console, majority won't care, they will care for access over branding.

Unfortunately I agree here, when they did the buyouts, they had huge delays and didn't offer much until now. The games needed to come out years ago.

Buisness isn't a short term game. Anything can change, we saw this with the Wii to the WiiU to the Switch. Xbox have the companies, they now have the game output, and they now need the attention, so by bringing games over to PS etc, it creates brand power. MS will use whatever game to grab the attention, and when a most anticipated sequel gets announced, MS can choose to keep it exclusive, making gamers turn their heads to the Xbox eco system.

Will see how this open platform strategy works for them, but I can say, it's what I wanted them doing years ago. No more console versions, just build PC consoles, running the PC version of the games similar to the Steam Deck, and allow full BC. No more gens, just upgrade when you feel like it.

Something is cooking at Xbox, and MS is fully behind it.



If you really want an Xbox logo on a PC. Buy a sticker.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!