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Machiavellian said:
bdbdbd said:

I'm not talking about how someone identifies him/herself. If you identify as a dog, does that make you a dog? Tomorrow you can be a cat. The day after a moose. 

I mean the DEI practices and diversity quotas. If you pick actors based on diversity, and not skill or how much money someone can bring in, there's something seriously wrong. If you think there aren't enough African representation in your movies, you should watch African movies. The same for Asians. And Europeans. What it does, is that it actually helps to make these actors and films known and financially viable and we get more of them. Or why not go watch women-focused films, instead of ones that were just gender swapped. If you think of the new Star Wars films, Rey was really shitty character, but Rogue One had Jyn who was excellent. Barbie was one of the best films of 2023, because it was well written and had lots of depht under the silly surface. 

The thing is you seem to single DEI as being just about race but clearly its not about just race. What you are doing is only thinking that race is the only criteria or the only sol reason why the person is being picked but there is no company that just goes and pick based on that one item.  That is the narrative used so the status quo can continue to discriminate at will. 

How do you know that the diversity of the actor isn't important to the role.  Meaning what skill are you talking about when choosing the actor.  If you have two actors and the role doesn't care what race they are, what skill determines one actor over the other.  If its the main actor and you have Denzel Washington and Tom Cruise, who do you pick.  Each actor skill set is different and they both bring something different to the role.  Could Tom Cruise play "The Equalizer" just like Denzel Washington.  Yes, but clearly each actor brings something totally different to how the role would be acted.

As far as your whole, you should watch movies made by the race or gender that wants to see representation, that doesn't really fly when you are out to make money.  See, if you want to make money and do not do things that target a group that may feel not represented by your product then guess what, you will not get their money.  Your whole premise on that point ignores why in entertainment, they look for more diversity and its not because they are looking to meet a quota, they are looking to make money.  So yes, if a group feel that an industry isn't properly representing them, they lose that group and thus lose that money because the biggest movers of anything within the US is money.

As to your Star Wars Rey comparisons to Rogue one

Lets take another comparisons where a role that was played by a man was swapped by a woman which is Day of the Jackal.  So the original film as well as the book had a white male as the agent looking for the assassin while the new series has a black woman.  The show is getting pretty good reviews and the actress is getting a lot of praise for her depiction of the role.  Could it be that its not about the gender but the actor and the script/direction.

At the end of it all, it really seems that people who care if character was swapped with another gender or race is more fearful about not being the default for a role more than anything else.  If all roles that were not sterotypical to either gender or race were played by straight white males, we probably would never hear anything from that crowd.  Your whole point seems to scream, "Stay in your lane". 

I believe I pointed out the gender swap as a DEI policy. It's pretty hard to have "gay representation wit gay actors" in movies and such, because your sexual orientation isn't anyone's business.

Yes, you seem to understand the problems with DEI, which is not providing the audience what they want. In the 90's nobody was interested who played who, as long as they did a good job. Today it's really hard to say who's a DEI hire and who's not, the only way to judge is whether The role qas good or not. If you had some African playing a role in the 80's, you knew that guy was good, today If you don''t have any Africans or women playing a lead role, the actors in all likeliness are chosen because they were the best available.

Cruise and Washington are bad examples, because they made their merits before the modern policies took place. They could draw in audience 20.years ago and they can do it today. Who'd be playing Maverick if Top Gun were made today? Would Maverick be the OP pilot? 



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the-pi-guy said:
bdbdbd said:

I know the term woke existed long before, but it re-emerged in 2000's and the re-emerged context is how we talk about it today.

Yes, I repeated my point about Squid game as I wasn't sure If you ageed or disagreed with it. 

Leaving a religion leaves a void on your moral compass. Either it's some other religion or an ideology that fills it for most people. More specifically, I'm talking about how people act in masses, not certain individual's behaviour.

False.

People are frequently more moral, because they're not being misled.

bdbdbd said:

Even newborns have prejudices. Well technically they're just xenophobic. However, children's moral compass is narcissm. The parents need to teach their kids other moral values that aren't self centered. 

Obviously false. Babies become familiar with what is around them. They don't have any inherent context of what race they are. 

"Babies make a distinction between those who are more visually similar to people they are used to seeing and and those who are less similar.

A few studies have suggested that many babies develop a bias towards people apparently more like themselves over the first year of life. Newborns show no preference for faces from their own race as compared to another race and recognise all faces equally well. "

https://theconversation.com/how-young-children-can-develop-racial-biases-and-what-that-means-93150#:~:text=Babies%20make%20a%20distinction%20between,the%20first%20year%20of%20life.

bdbdbd said:

I'm actually quite curious on this one: If your country starts talking muslim immigrants, how long would it take for your atheist country to turn islamic? Why do you think what you think?

There's no single answer. It depends on how those people decide to promote policy. 

How are people frequently more moral? Haven't really seen it happening.

Why isn't there an answer? If we have dogmas that are being forced to everyone and then we don''t have anything to defend against them. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

BFR said:
bdbdbd said:

The political compass has nothing to do with the US parties, but everything to do where you yourself stand politically. I did the test and it seems to be close enough. According to it, I'm within one point from the center to libertarian left. 

Then why is the word "Libertarian" listed? That only references the Libertarian party, or have I got it wrong?

It should say something like "free spirit" or "anti-gov" instead.

It reads libertarian, because the follows the US rhetoric. The libertarian in the map should be liberal. 

How liberal and libertarian are different, is that liberalism end at night-watch state and for libertarian, the night-watch state is bare minimum. In practice, it's not that simple, but you can take it as a rule of thumb.

Libertarian is a right wing anarchist. Basically the difference between a right wing anarchist and a left wing anarchist is, that right wing sees that you can gather personal property whereas on the left The property is for anyone to take.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:

How are people frequently more moral? Haven't really seen it happening.

Because people often use religion to justify terrible things. 

Religion has been used to justify going to war. It has been used to justify murdering your child because we don't want a gay/trans child.

bdbdbd said:

Why isn't there an answer? If we have dogmas that are being forced to everyone and then we don''t have anything to defend against them. 

Because people aren't monoliths. They don't all want the same things. 

Some Christians are very fundamentalists and believe that everyone should be (forced to be) Christians.

And lots of other Christians don't believe that - who have no issue with people being atheists and believe that plenty of people can just do good.

If 10 million Muslims come into a small country, and believe that the country should match their ideals, then yes it'll happen.

If 10 million Muslims come into a small country, but believe in freedom of religion, then it doesn't happen. 



BFR said:

Me - Why would any sane person think the DPRK has any connection to any US political party, including the Libertarian one?

Because it has the word "Democratic" and "Republic" in it.

BFR said:

Me - Sorry Pi, but when most people hear those words, they immediately associate them with their respective parties.

When most **Americans hear those words in contexts that obviously have to do with a political party, they immediately associate them with their respective parties..

Most Americans understand that Democracy predates the "Democratic" party. Most Americans understand that words like Socialism, Communism, have meanings beyond a political party. 

Many other countries have their own Democratic, Republican, Socialist, Social Democratic parties, and the author of the website is clearly very aware of that.

BFR said:

ME - How can you say this for certain PI? Tell me, who created the "Political compass test"

Because: 

A.) The compass was originally conceived decades before the Libertarian party.

"In the 1950s, psychologists Leonard Ferguson and Hans Eysenck both individually suggested that double-axis, two-dimensional graphs were more fitting for understanding the political spectrum that existed.7 These theories understood political identities as being reflective of personalities rather than just economic preferences. In particular, Hans Eysenck’s model, as seen above, is similar to the political compass model, especially in its innovative move that did not place fascism as the opposite of communism, contrary to popular belief, but instead that fascism was the opposite anarchism. The political compass is rooted in similar beliefs, but places authoritarianism as the opposite of libertarian, and uses left and right instead of radical and conservative."

https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/political-science/political-compass

B.) The word libertarian predates the current Libertarian party.

Again, all of these words have political definitions that have nothing to do with the current breakdown of US political parties. 

C.) The compass itself isn't scaled to anything in US politics. 


Most US politicians are in the top right corner. 



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There is no way Trump and Hillary belong in the same quadrant. This whole "Political Compass" talk, is a pile of BS.



BFR said:

There is no way Trump and Hillary belong in the same quadrant. This whole "Political Compass" talk, is a pile of BS.

Mostly because you don't understand how wide the spectrum actually is. 

The bottom half would have more to do with dissolving the government, including the military. Which no US Republican or US Democrat is pushing to do. 

The left half would have more to do with dissolving private businesses, in favor of social ownership. Which aside from health insurance (Medicare for all), no US Republican or Democrat is pushing to do.  

I would disagree on the exact placement on where some of the people are, and yes I have some issues with the test. But the concept is there. 

Last edited by the-pi-guy - 2 days ago

the-pi-guy said:
bdbdbd said:

How are people frequently more moral? Haven't really seen it happening.

Because people often use religion to justify terrible things. 

Religion has been used to justify going to war. It has been used to justify murdering your child because we don't want a gay/trans child.

bdbdbd said:

Why isn't there an answer? If we have dogmas that are being forced to everyone and then we don''t have anything to defend against them. 

Because people aren't monoliths. They don't all want the same things. 

Some Christians are very fundamentalists and believe that everyone should be (forced to be) Christians.

And lots of other Christians don't believe that - who have no issue with people being atheists and believe that plenty of people can just do good.

If 10 million Muslims come into a small country, and believe that the country should match their ideals, then yes it'll happen.

If 10 million Muslims come into a small country, but believe in freedom of religion, then it doesn't happen. 

But the horrible things justified by religion are just morals of the religion. They are doing good according to their moral. Moral is just the set of rules to follow. The less rules you have, the less moral you have. High moral is following the rules closely and low moral not following them. 

People don''t want the same things, but people follow a religion that has it's own dogmas. They follow the dogmas, the teachings that are not allowed to be questioned. You can't be a christian without believing in Jesus (well, technically anyone who's ever been christened is a christian, no matter if you leave the religion or adopt a new one, but I think you know what I meant). 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

BFR said:

There is no way Trump and Hillary belong in the same quadrant. This whole "Political Compass" talk, is a pile of BS.

As a Brazillian, I live in a country where many parties co-exist and they have sometimes vastly different understanding of how government should work (or shouldn't work)

In my perspective, Trump and Hillary look fairly close. I think US bipartisan system make Americans somewhat unable to understand a broader political spectrum

I've seen Americans calling countries like Germany socialists, I don't think Germans seen themselves as a socialist nation, and socialists nations like China and Vietnam would quickly call Germany a capitalist country

Last edited by IcaroRibeiro - 2 days ago

IcaroRibeiro said:
BFR said:

There is no way Trump and Hillary belong in the same quadrant. This whole "Political Compass" talk, is a pile of BS.

As a Brazillian, I live in a country where many parties co-exist and they have sometimes vastly different understanding of how government should work (or shouldn't work)

In my perspective, Trump and Hillary look fairly close. I think US bipartisan system make Americans somewhat unable to understand a broader political spectrum

I've seen Americans calling countries like Germany socialists, I don't think Germans seem themselves as a socialists nations, and socialists nations like China and Vietnam would quickly call Germany a capitalist country

It's surprising that Trump and Clinton aren't closer to each other. 

I think this map few posts above describes pretty good how the two parties in US are aligned. If you look from the outside, it looks like the two parties run the excact same things with a little twist. And they do.

In part they are aligned that way, because in most cases, it seems that US constitution is the bottom half. It gives people a lot of freedoms, and to an extent, both parties try to limit the freedoms that the constitution gives.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.