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bdbdbd said:
Machiavellian said:

So actually being a citizen, born and raised in America doesn't define you as being an American?  Or does it have to be defined by some political lean whether you are a American or not.  Not sure what makes or not make sense in your use of wokeness here.  Can you define that better.

It does make you a national of some American country, but it does nothing to your ethnicity. 

What is woke here, is identity politics - at the same time everyone should "identify as American" everyone should identify by their otherness, which naturally doesn't exist, because everyone is American. Just take a look at US presidential elections for example: ethnic group A votes for canditate X, ethnic group B votes for candidate Y, ethnic group C votes for candidate Z and so on. And therefore we need DEI hires in government positions to have equal representation, because a minority would be minority in representation when treated fairly. 

When has humans in general only identify by just one definition.  If you identify as straight white male does that also mean you do not identify as an American.  The thing is DEI is not based on just race, you do understand that right.  DEI can be race, religion, gender, nationality, age, disability etc, or are you one of those people who only see the term fitting for someone of another race outside of white and that's it?

If that is the case then as always, the term DEI has been co-opted from its original definition and serve as just a tool to use for giving the appearance that someone of another race outside of being white was hired not for their skill but their race. The question is why is there such a policy or do you believe that their isn't discriminations for the list of individuals that fall under DEI.  Or is it that you believe that DEI is used for hiring equal representation for individuals within that group instead of hiring to combat discriminations within the workplace.



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Machiavellian said:
bdbdbd said:

It does make you a national of some American country, but it does nothing to your ethnicity. 

What is woke here, is identity politics - at the same time everyone should "identify as American" everyone should identify by their otherness, which naturally doesn't exist, because everyone is American. Just take a look at US presidential elections for example: ethnic group A votes for canditate X, ethnic group B votes for candidate Y, ethnic group C votes for candidate Z and so on. And therefore we need DEI hires in government positions to have equal representation, because a minority would be minority in representation when treated fairly. 

When has humans in general only identify by just one definition.  If you identify as straight white male does that also mean you do not identify as an American.  The thing is DEI is not based on just race, you do understand that right.  DEI can be race, religion, gender, nationality, age, disability etc, or are you one of those people who only see the term fitting for someone of another race outside of white and that's it?

If that is the case then as always, the term DEI has been co-opted from its original definition and serve as just a tool to use for giving the appearance that someone of another race outside of being white was hired not for their skill but their race. The question is why is there such a policy or do you believe that their isn't discriminations for the list of individuals that fall under DEI.  Or is it that you believe that DEI is used for hiring equal representation for individuals within that group instead of hiring to combat discriminations within the workplace.

I'm not talking about how someone identifies him/herself. If you identify as a dog, does that make you a dog? Tomorrow you can be a cat. The day after a moose. 

I mean the DEI practices and diversity quotas. If you pick actors based on diversity, and not skill or how much money someone can bring in, there's something seriously wrong. If you think there aren't enough African representation in your movies, you should watch African movies. The same for Asians. And Europeans. What it does, is that it actually helps to make these actors and films known and financially viable and we get more of them. Or why not go watch women-focused films, instead of ones that were just gender swapped. If you think of the new Star Wars films, Rey was really shitty character, but Rogue One had Jyn who was excellent. Barbie was one of the best films of 2023, because it was well written and had lots of depht under the silly surface. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Barbie, about the American toy product, portrayed by the Australian Margot Robbie, that Australian should stick to Australian films.



Pemalite said:
Cyran said:

I mean we all share a common ancestry if you want to go back far enough.  My point is there are different jewish ethics groups.  Ashkenazi = European Jew and while there common dna with Arabs there is also DNA that unique to Ashkenazi that allow them to be identified as Ashkenazi. When I submitted my DNA it did not come back as some middle eastern country even through clearly some of my DNA link me there but it came back as European jew because there are distinct markers for that also.  For example from your article "Richards et al. published work suggesting that an overwhelming majority of Ashkenazi Jewish maternal ancestry, estimated at "80 percent of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry comes from women indigenous to Europe, and [only] 8 percent from the Near East, with the rest uncertain"".  My point is there been enough time from the initial migration form the middle east for multiple ethics groups among jews to form. 

Regardless, I feel like you are pushing farther from the original point.

That it's a ethnoreligious group, anyone can thus become Jewish in the religious sense.

Here my point.  I wish people would only view judaism as a religion but history have shown me I don't get to think that way.

I have called myself Atheist since I was 13 years old.  Last time I went to a religious service was 25 years ago after that I was old enough that my parents could not make me anymore.  None of that matters through if there another Hitler.  They want me dead because my parents was jewish.  I have no doubt they would use DNA to target people if another Hitler ever had power in a country.  The person that just converted could pretend to not be jewish.  I who not practice the religion in over 25 years would be killed through.

When you say because it a choice it should not be considered a minority group but have you consider the person who may not hire me because they found out my parents jewish.  Who see my jewish last name and decide not to hire me.  Let me be clear I not asking for any special treatment or benefit but if it found someone don't hire someone for the sole and only reason that they are jewish or have a jewish ancestors I do think that should be included in anti discrimination laws.

Idearly Judaism is only a religion but history have shown there to many people in this world that would have me killed for a religion I have never followed so I don't get to think that way as matter of survival.



bdbdbd said:
Machiavellian said:

When has humans in general only identify by just one definition.  If you identify as straight white male does that also mean you do not identify as an American.  The thing is DEI is not based on just race, you do understand that right.  DEI can be race, religion, gender, nationality, age, disability etc, or are you one of those people who only see the term fitting for someone of another race outside of white and that's it?

If that is the case then as always, the term DEI has been co-opted from its original definition and serve as just a tool to use for giving the appearance that someone of another race outside of being white was hired not for their skill but their race. The question is why is there such a policy or do you believe that their isn't discriminations for the list of individuals that fall under DEI.  Or is it that you believe that DEI is used for hiring equal representation for individuals within that group instead of hiring to combat discriminations within the workplace.

I'm not talking about how someone identifies him/herself. If you identify as a dog, does that make you a dog? Tomorrow you can be a cat. The day after a moose. 

I mean the DEI practices and diversity quotas. If you pick actors based on diversity, and not skill or how much money someone can bring in, there's something seriously wrong. If you think there aren't enough African representation in your movies, you should watch African movies. The same for Asians. And Europeans. What it does, is that it actually helps to make these actors and films known and financially viable and we get more of them. Or why not go watch women-focused films, instead of ones that were just gender swapped. If you think of the new Star Wars films, Rey was really shitty character, but Rogue One had Jyn who was excellent. Barbie was one of the best films of 2023, because it was well written and had lots of depht under the silly surface. 

The thing is you seem to single DEI as being just about race but clearly its not about just race. What you are doing is only thinking that race is the only criteria or the only sol reason why the person is being picked but there is no company that just goes and pick based on that one item.  That is the narrative used so the status quo can continue to discriminate at will. 

How do you know that the diversity of the actor isn't important to the role.  Meaning what skill are you talking about when choosing the actor.  If you have two actors and the role doesn't care what race they are, what skill determines one actor over the other.  If its the main actor and you have Denzel Washington and Tom Cruise, who do you pick.  Each actor skill set is different and they both bring something different to the role.  Could Tom Cruise play "The Equalizer" just like Denzel Washington.  Yes, but clearly each actor brings something totally different to how the role would be acted.

As far as your whole, you should watch movies made by the race or gender that wants to see representation, that doesn't really fly when you are out to make money.  See, if you want to make money and do not do things that target a group that may feel not represented by your product then guess what, you will not get their money.  Your whole premise on that point ignores why in entertainment, they look for more diversity and its not because they are looking to meet a quota, they are looking to make money.  So yes, if a group feel that an industry isn't properly representing them, they lose that group and thus lose that money because the biggest movers of anything within the US is money.

As to your Star Wars Rey comparisons to Rogue one

Lets take another comparisons where a role that was played by a man was swapped by a woman which is Day of the Jackal.  So the original film as well as the book had a white male as the agent looking for the assassin while the new series has a black woman.  The show is getting pretty good reviews and the actress is getting a lot of praise for her depiction of the role.  Could it be that its not about the gender but the actor and the script/direction.

At the end of it all, it really seems that people who care if character was swapped with another gender or race is more fearful about not being the default for a role more than anything else.  If all roles that were not sterotypical to either gender or race were played by straight white males, we probably would never hear anything from that crowd.  Your whole point seems to scream, "Stay in your lane". 



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bdbdbd said:

I mean the DEI practices and diversity quotas. If you pick actors based on diversity, and not skill or how much money someone can bring in, there's something seriously wrong.

Implying that diverse people can't be good at something? 

bdbdbd said:

I mean the DEI practices and diversity quotas. If you pick actors based on diversity, and not skill or how much money someone can bring in, there's something seriously wrong. If you think there aren't enough African representation in your movies, you should watch African movies. The same for Asians. And Europeans. What it does, is that it actually helps to make these actors and films known and financially viable and we get more of them. Or why not go watch women-focused films, instead of ones that were just gender swapped. If you think of the new Star Wars films, Rey was really shitty character, but Rogue One had Jyn who was excellent. 

A lot of the same stuff would exist with or without the alleged "diversity quotas".

A lot of these alleged quotas are illegal even:

According to Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, it’s illegal to consider any single candidate’s or employee’s race — even with the intention of creating a more diverse, equitable, or inclusive workforce — in any employment decision. Employers can’t create de facto hiring quotas (e.g., “50% of the employees hired in this department must be women”), or “reserve seats” for employees from certain groups, even in the interest of diversity.

How to Effectively — and Legally — Use Racial Data for DEI



bdbdbd said:

I know the term woke existed long before, but it re-emerged in 2000's and the re-emerged context is how we talk about it today.

Yes, I repeated my point about Squid game as I wasn't sure If you ageed or disagreed with it. 

Leaving a religion leaves a void on your moral compass. Either it's some other religion or an ideology that fills it for most people. More specifically, I'm talking about how people act in masses, not certain individual's behaviour.

False.

People are frequently more moral, because they're not being misled.

bdbdbd said:

Even newborns have prejudices. Well technically they're just xenophobic. However, children's moral compass is narcissm. The parents need to teach their kids other moral values that aren't self centered. 

Obviously false. Babies become familiar with what is around them. They don't have any inherent context of what race they are. 

"Babies make a distinction between those who are more visually similar to people they are used to seeing and and those who are less similar.

A few studies have suggested that many babies develop a bias towards people apparently more like themselves over the first year of life. Newborns show no preference for faces from their own race as compared to another race and recognise all faces equally well. "

https://theconversation.com/how-young-children-can-develop-racial-biases-and-what-that-means-93150#:~:text=Babies%20make%20a%20distinction%20between,the%20first%20year%20of%20life.

bdbdbd said:

I'm actually quite curious on this one: If your country starts talking muslim immigrants, how long would it take for your atheist country to turn islamic? Why do you think what you think?

There's no single answer. It depends on how those people decide to promote policy. 



Ryuu96 said:

Barbie, about the American toy product, portrayed by the Australian Margot Robbie, that Australian should stick to Australian films.

She was great in "The Wolf of Wall Street" :)



One more thought, I can honestly say......this thread is........100% FUBAR......



Last thought to Jaicee, since your the OP in this thread, I would like to see your source for "the classic Political Compass Test" you mentioned in your OP.

My apologies if you have already listed your source.