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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo to pursue over 200.000 Reddit users

firebush03 said:
Jules98 said:

So in other words, no one is allowed to defend themselves from theft, and all devs should just suck it up when you want something for free.

Methinks you underestimate the amount of money that goes around in businesses like these, and the amount of money that is lost due to piracy.

Also, it's not like Nintendo can unilaterally decide the fines. That's what the courts do. If you have problems with that, you should be barking up that tree instead.

Wrong! "So in other words, no one is allowed to defend themselves from theft" is a what some may call a "strawman". If a country launches a missile into another country, that doesn't give the victim country the moral right to launch a nuke in retaliation. Analogously, I don't believe anybody should ever have their life ruined over a petty crime. It's insanity that this even need to explained. It is not justice for Nintendo to taking 20% of Gary Bowser's paycheck for the rest of his days, after having sent him to jail: This is a cruel punishment intended to serve as an example for others not to replicate his behavior, not "justice" for the victim.

Piracy (or any petty crime) should not recieve a near-death sentence. Why is this such a controversial statement? $1mil to the average person is 20y worth of the average American's paycheck.

You do know what Gary Bowser and the group he was part of actually did, right? He's not some misunderstood, unfairly punished saint. Causing console makers to cost an estimated $65 million in damages and making "tens of millions of dollars" in profit over their backs is definitely not petty crime material.



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firebush03 said:
Jules98 said:

So in other words, no one is allowed to defend themselves from theft, and all devs should just suck it up when you want something for free.

Methinks you underestimate the amount of money that goes around in businesses like these, and the amount of money that is lost due to piracy.

Also, it's not like Nintendo can unilaterally decide the fines. That's what the courts do. If you have problems with that, you should be barking up that tree instead.

Wrong! "So in other words, no one is allowed to defend themselves from theft" is a what some may call a "strawman". If a country launches a missile into another country, that doesn't give the victim country the moral right to launch a nuke in retaliation. Analogously, I don't believe anybody should ever have their life ruined over a petty crime. It's insanity that this even need to explained. It is not justice for Nintendo to taking 20% of Gary Bowser's paycheck for the rest of his days, after having sent him to jail: This is a cruel punishment intended to serve as an example for others not to replicate his behavior, not "justice" for the victim.

Piracy (or any petty crime) should not recieve a near-death sentence. Why is this such a controversial statement? $1mil to the average person is 20y worth of the average American's paycheck.

Til I learned that losing 20% of your paycheck is a near-death sentence.
Dunno how I'm still alive after losing 25% of mine to my mortgage.



psychicscubadiver said:
firebush03 said:

Wrong! "So in other words, no one is allowed to defend themselves from theft" is a what some may call a "strawman". If a country launches a missile into another country, that doesn't give the victim country the moral right to launch a nuke in retaliation. Analogously, I don't believe anybody should ever have their life ruined over a petty crime. It's insanity that this even need to explained. It is not justice for Nintendo to taking 20% of Gary Bowser's paycheck for the rest of his days, after having sent him to jail: This is a cruel punishment intended to serve as an example for others not to replicate his behavior, not "justice" for the victim.

Piracy (or any petty crime) should not recieve a near-death sentence. Why is this such a controversial statement? $1mil to the average person is 20y worth of the average American's paycheck.

Til I learned that losing 20% of your paycheck is a near-death sentence.
Dunno how I'm still alive after losing 25% of mine to my mortgage.

pretty remarkable that you are still alive after losing 25%!! Wow! :O

Dropping the sarcasm: You are very fortunate to be able to afford such a hit. :) Not everybody is as fortunate...living paycheck-to-paycheck could mean 25-30% is the difference between living in a 2x2 apartment room versus literally living in the streets. (Which, again, need I remind you that $50k/year is the median household income in USA...so I'm not describing an extreme situation, but rather the norm. Housing is becoming increasingly pricey.)



Jules98 said:
firebush03 said:

Wrong! "So in other words, no one is allowed to defend themselves from theft" is a what some may call a "strawman". If a country launches a missile into another country, that doesn't give the victim country the moral right to launch a nuke in retaliation. Analogously, I don't believe anybody should ever have their life ruined over a petty crime. It's insanity that this even need to explained. It is not justice for Nintendo to taking 20% of Gary Bowser's paycheck for the rest of his days, after having sent him to jail: This is a cruel punishment intended to serve as an example for others not to replicate his behavior, not "justice" for the victim.

Piracy (or any petty crime) should not recieve a near-death sentence. Why is this such a controversial statement? $1mil to the average person is 20y worth of the average American's paycheck.

You do know what Gary Bowser and the group he was part of actually did, right? He's not some misunderstood, unfairly punished saint. Causing console makers to cost an estimated $65 million in damages and making "tens of millions of dollars" in profit over their backs is definitely not petty crime material.

(i) "unfairly punished saint" Never said he was a "saint", my belief is mercy and rehabilitation is far better than vengence and punishment. In fact, an overwhelming consensus of researchers have reached the conclusion that mercy is far more effective in deterring crime than any punitive measures...so he could be a saint, or a devil. He should be treated with some level of mercy, as do all people. Everybody gets so fixated on serving justice for the victim...but why not to instigater? Why are they not worthy of sympathy?

(ii) You literally are just wrong about how much Gary got away with: It was around $320k over the seven years of operation. The business he was running accumulated millions, but Gary personally only recieve a few hundred thousand...which is not good. Of course it's not good, but why does he need to pay Nintendo $14mil in return for taking $300k? Nintendo is a massive company, and $300k is nothing to them. Not even $15mil is a lot to Nintendo, they literally accumulate billions in revenue each yeah.

Also, why should an individual be expected to pay off all the damages done to a massive corporation? It's like if a child broke a $1,000 vase, and the parents demanded $140,000 in response. This doesn't seem just to me. :/ There's a power imbalance here, so I feel it'd make the most sense in the punishment wasn't "an eye for an eye", but scaled so as to accomodate for this imbalance. Why am I wrong for thinking this?



firebush03 said:
Jules98 said:

You do know what Gary Bowser and the group he was part of actually did, right? He's not some misunderstood, unfairly punished saint. Causing console makers to cost an estimated $65 million in damages and making "tens of millions of dollars" in profit over their backs is definitely not petty crime material.

(i) "unfairly punished saint" Never said he was a "saint", my belief is mercy and rehabilitation is far better than vengence and punishment. In fact, an overwhelming consensus of researchers have reached the conclusion that mercy is far more effective in deterring crime than any punitive measures...so he could be a saint, or a devil. He should be treated with some level of mercy, as do all people. Everybody gets so fixated on serving justice for the victim...but why not to instigater? Why are they not worthy of sympathy?

(ii) You literally are just wrong about how much Gary got away with: It was around $320k over the seven years of operation. The business he was running accumulated millions, but Gary personally only recieve a few hundred thousand...which is not good. Of course it's not good, but why does he need to pay Nintendo $14mil in return for taking $300k? Nintendo is a massive company, and $300k is nothing to them. Not even $15mil is a lot to Nintendo, they literally accumulate billions in revenue each yeah.

Also, why should an individual be expected to pay off all the damages done to a massive corporation? It's like if a child broke a $1,000 vase, and the parents demanded $140,000 in response. This doesn't seem just to me. :/ There's a power imbalance here, so I feel it'd make the most sense in the punishment wasn't "an eye for an eye", but scaled so as to accomodate for this imbalance. Why am I wrong for thinking this?

While I understand where you are coming from, let me put it like this. If we are talking about say losing 20% of what you profited and that is only if you are caught and convicted then you, by stealing, you are looking at a guaranteed 80% to possibly 100% profit from someone else's work.  That sounds like incentive to me not a deterrent.

If anything maybe it should be an eye for an eye.  I will agree that 2 eyes for an eye (like your vase example) may be a bit much.



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The_Yoda said:
firebush03 said:

(i) "unfairly punished saint" Never said he was a "saint", my belief is mercy and rehabilitation is far better than vengence and punishment. In fact, an overwhelming consensus of researchers have reached the conclusion that mercy is far more effective in deterring crime than any punitive measures...so he could be a saint, or a devil. He should be treated with some level of mercy, as do all people. Everybody gets so fixated on serving justice for the victim...but why not to instigater? Why are they not worthy of sympathy?

(ii) You literally are just wrong about how much Gary got away with: It was around $320k over the seven years of operation. The business he was running accumulated millions, but Gary personally only recieve a few hundred thousand...which is not good. Of course it's not good, but why does he need to pay Nintendo $14mil in return for taking $300k? Nintendo is a massive company, and $300k is nothing to them. Not even $15mil is a lot to Nintendo, they literally accumulate billions in revenue each yeah.

Also, why should an individual be expected to pay off all the damages done to a massive corporation? It's like if a child broke a $1,000 vase, and the parents demanded $140,000 in response. This doesn't seem just to me. :/ There's a power imbalance here, so I feel it'd make the most sense in the punishment wasn't "an eye for an eye", but scaled so as to accomodate for this imbalance. Why am I wrong for thinking this?

While I understand where you are coming from, let me put it like this. If we are talking about say losing 20% of what you profited and that is only if you are caught and convicted then you, by stealing, you are looking at a guaranteed 80% to possibly 100% profit from someone else's work.  That sounds like incentive to me not a deterrent.

If anything maybe it should be an eye for an eye.  I will agree that 2 eyes for an eye (like your vase example) may be a bit much.

hmmmm.....I would need to think on this. My gut instinct says that yeah, you've got a point, it would only make sense that the instigator pay what they got away with...but if that person already spent the money, however, then we're stuck with a tricky situation. If this is $10mil? Then the person is pretty much ruined, which is a situation I would like to avoid...idk.

Last edited by firebush03 - on 04 December 2024

Alex_The_Hedgehog said:

Nintendo is not close to being done with its legal crackdown on Switch modders and others whom it accuses of fomenting piracy.

In a recent filing in federal court in Washington State, Nintendo of America (NOA) said its investigation of Switch modder James “Archbox” Williams has given it new targets. They include a SwitchPirates subreddit with some 200,000 members, Game File has learned.

Nintendo is now seeking an okay from the court to subpoena business records from internet domain companies Name Cheap, Go Daddy and Tucows, as well as Cloudflare, Github, Discord, Google, and Reddit to identify alleged associates of Williams.

Specific to Reddit, the company states:

Reddit, Inc. operates a social media platform where users, often using pseudonyms, may post to different forums known as communities or “subreddits.” Defendant was a primary moderator of the SwitchPirates community, under the name “Archbox,” which boasted more than 190,000 members. Nintendo has reason to believe that other accounts active in the SwitchPirates community may also have been controlled by Defendant, or else reflect other individuals who have worked alongside Defendant.

The company made clear that IDing such people will give them an open lane to sue: “The purpose of all of the requested subpoenas is to seek relevant information that is necessary for NOA to pursue infringement claims.”

Source and full material: Game File

===

Well, I still love Nintendo games to this day. I grew up with a SNES, then I also enjoyed almost all of their other consoles... But to be honest to myself, I don't like the people behind the company.

I think, and I hope, that this backfires. But that's my opinion.

I think you misunderstood this.

Nintendo is NOT after the 200.000. They want to find the people making money on this.. the criminals.

Would't you mean that the people making money on piracy, and look what i say.. making money. are criminals?



SvennoJ said:

What did I miss? Is Nintendo suing 200,000 Reddit users for $1 million each? $200 trillion lawsuit?

All I get from the source is that Nintendo is looking for accomplishes to James “Archbox” Williams by requesting info on aliases and other sites he has been active on. Nintendo goes after those profiting from piracy. They're not going after the avg Reddit user or sue people that have downloaded a ROM.

What's with all the hyperbole...

Nintendo shouldn't get access to what's probably personally identifiable information of 200,000 users just because some of them might be involved in illegal activities. That's a clear overreach in my opinion, because it's likely to violate the privacy of a very large number of innocent users as well. Privacy is valuable too. I skimmed through the filing, and while I'm not sure because it's legal jargon, my impression is that Nintendo has indeed not specified further anywhere which users it wants information about, so the chances are that it's all of them. I'm also not getting the impression that Nintendo is getting the authorities to investigate those users, I'm getting the impression that Nintendo itself wants the data of those users to investigate on its own. I don't think the users signed up for such distribution of data, and I don't think it's at all reasonable either. I think such gross violation of privacy demands a case much more serious than seeking out a small number of accomplishes among all those users.



Zkuq said:
SvennoJ said:

What did I miss? Is Nintendo suing 200,000 Reddit users for $1 million each? $200 trillion lawsuit?

All I get from the source is that Nintendo is looking for accomplishes to James “Archbox” Williams by requesting info on aliases and other sites he has been active on. Nintendo goes after those profiting from piracy. They're not going after the avg Reddit user or sue people that have downloaded a ROM.

What's with all the hyperbole...

Nintendo shouldn't get access to what's probably personally identifiable information of 200,000 users just because some of them might be involved in illegal activities. That's a clear overreach in my opinion, because it's likely to violate the privacy of a very large number of innocent users as well. Privacy is valuable too. I skimmed through the filing, and while I'm not sure because it's legal jargon, my impression is that Nintendo has indeed not specified further anywhere which users it wants information about, so the chances are that it's all of them. I'm also not getting the impression that Nintendo is getting the authorities to investigate those users, I'm getting the impression that Nintendo itself wants the data of those users to investigate on its own. I don't think the users signed up for such distribution of data, and I don't think it's at all reasonable either. I think such gross violation of privacy demands a case much more serious than seeking out a small number of accomplishes among all those users.

Lol don't talk to me about privacy on Reddit, or the internet in general

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/247637/beware-of-scraping-bots-and-keyword-stuffing-google-neraly-ruined-my-marriage/

Regardless of farming bots, your information is sold to whoever wants to pay for it. Any free service -> you are the product.

Plus it's likely somewhere in the Eula that your data can be shared with authorities.

Here it is

https://www.reddit.com/policies/privacy-policy

How We Share Information

To comply with the law. We may share information if we believe disclosure is in accordance with, or required by, any applicable law, regulation, legal process, or governmental request, including, but not limited to, meeting national security or law enforcement requirements. To the extent the law allows it, we will attempt to provide you with prior notice before disclosing your information in response to such a request. Our Transparency Report has additional information about how we respond to government requests.

I doubt Nintendo wants to sift through all that themselves. That's police work.



Yeah privacy is a concept is dead at this point, it's an illusion at best, companies and governments already know everything about you.
Worrying that people's privacy will be compromised here is like treading water in the middle of the ocean and worrying that it'll rain cos you don't wanna get wet.