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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The third console curse: Which was the biggest stumble?

 

I think the biggest stumble was...

Nintendo 64 5 6.25%
 
Sega Saturn 40 50.00%
 
PS3 7 8.75%
 
Xbox One 28 35.00%
 
Total:80
Jumpin said:

But it's worth noting that the Sega Saturn was Sega's fourth console. Their first was the SG-1000, second was the Master System, and third was the Mega Drive.

Thank you for point that out.

The poll is asking about the third console from these console makers. As such, the Saturn shouldn’t even be in the equation.



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Jumpin said:

Xbox One was a Return to Status quo, and PS3 didn't do any lasting damage, just a temporary misstep.

By the time Saturn came out, Sega's reputation had already declined drastically. But Sega really only had a few years of being in the discussion as a market leader. The Saturn was a good console, but it went up against a superior console with a better price point. But it's worth noting that the Sega Saturn was Sega's fourth console. Their first was the SG-1000, second was the Master System, and third was the Mega Drive. I have all five of Sega's consoles.

The N64, on the other hand, ended a period where Nintendo was synonymous with video games that had lasted 12-13 years. Nintendo went from dominance to falling into a distant second before falling into third place the next generation where GC sold less than 1/6th of the PS2. The N64 also used cartridges, which were not only obsolete, but inferior and more expensive than CDs. Nintendo consoles went from being the home of RPGs to being more or less devoid of the genre.

A lot of this was because of the poor choices with the hardware, but the main problem was Nintendo's poor leadership prior to Iwata taking over - specifically the CEO (H. Yamauchi). Iwata's predecessor not only destroyed relationships between Nintendo and RPG developers, but decided it would be a good idea to publicly insult RPG fans. Instead of acknowledging his own incompetence when actually going up against some real competition, he made things much worse. His antics more or less lost all of Nintendo's major third party developers as exclusive developers or developers who primarily supported Nintendo consoles - this included (but wasn't limited to) Squaresoft, Enix, DMA (Rockstar North), Capcom, Konami, Koei, and Rare would make its exit shortly after. Some of these companies, such as Squaresoft, would release no games on N64. The damage to third party relations was profound, and lasts to this very day. Final Fantasy is still primarily a Playstation product.

Lastly, as a Nintendo fan, and an RPG fan, apart from the ridiculous statements from Nintendo's CEO, they also completely ripped off a contingent of Nintendo fans who supported them (during this generation and the next) with something like religious fervour as they would even buy Nintendo consoles and games out of duty, even when they sucked, even when the games were extremely overpriced. The Yamauchi era Nintendo took advantage of this.

That's why I say N64.
1. Nintendo should have easily won that generation.
2. Saturn wasn't really a bad console, just a commercially unsuccessful one, and also Sega's fourth console rather than their third. PS3 was a small stumble, and Xbox One was a return to Status Quo.
3. Permanent damage done between Nintendo and third parties.
4. Ended Nintendo's 12-13 year period of dominance.
5. It took around 10 years for Nintendo to recover.
6. Nintendo ripped off fans with the N64's software.

While the Wii and DS did the majority of the recovery, I'd say it took all the way until the Switch for Nintendo to regain the good will of the gaming audience and developers as a whole.

If you are framing it like that you should also mention the CD drive they tried to develop for the 64 which ultimately spawned Sony getting into the console business.  A pretty big blunder. Bad for Nintendo good for gamers.



Hynad said:
Jumpin said:

But it's worth noting that the Sega Saturn was Sega's fourth console. Their first was the SG-1000, second was the Master System, and third was the Mega Drive.

Thank you for point that out.

The poll is asking about the third console from these console makers. As such, the Saturn shouldn’t even be in the equation.

Going down that route Nintendo's third console is technically the Color TV-Game Racing 112.



I choose PS3 not cause it was the biggest stumble but because it was so easily avoidable, I see them making the same mistakes now with their success and it's so easily avoidable. They should know that gamers are a fickle bunch and nothing is set in stone, everything is one bad fuck up away from Ruin or recently for them a snowball of smaller fuck ups that' may well lead to a moderate fuck up sending them back to the starting line.



Jumpin said:

But it's worth noting that the Sega Saturn was Sega's fourth console. Their first was the SG-1000, second was the Master System, and third was the Mega Drive.

Well pointed out, sir! Shame on all us others we just jumped on the topic without giving this a proper thought/ research. 



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Bizwas said:
Jumpin said:

But it's worth noting that the Sega Saturn was Sega's fourth console. Their first was the SG-1000, second was the Master System, and third was the Mega Drive.

Well pointed out, sir! Shame on all us others we just jumped on the topic without giving this a proper thought/ research. 

Yeah the SEGA SG 1000 is SEGA's first I just came to the defense of Saturn since so many have not experienced it and think it's a bad console. It's an amazing console.  SEGA fans just got the Saroo going. So it shows the fanbase is still passionate and active. Something Xbox One will never have. But I guess Xbox One is also technically MS's 4th attempt as they had the MSX in the 80s. But it also technically wasn't a console even tho it was mainly used for games and was the birth place of Metal Gear.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Yes SG-1000 was Sega's first console, it actually released the exact same day in Japan as the Nintendo Famicom, so they were direct competitors. And the Famicom was *way* more powerful and obviously far more successful. The SG-1000 generally failed and was never released in North America so most people think the Sega Master System (which was actually the sequel to the SG-1000) was Sega's first console. 

That said even if you consider Saturn the 3rd Sega console, I mean honestly the history of Sega consoles was more or less failure.

SG-1000, Sega Master System, Sega Saturn, Sega Dreamcast (guess you can throw 32X and Sega CD into this pile too) all had mediocre sales numbers ... if anything the Mega Drive/Genesis is the singular outlier.

Even the Sega Game Gear only sold 11 million units worldwide, which ... isn't really great. Genesis/Mega Drive is the only system they ever sold over 15 million units. Everything else they made sold less than the Wii U. 

You could really just say the Saturn was actually a return to form for Sega, as it sold in line with all their other hardware minus the Genesis. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 14 October 2024

We could certainly look back years from now and say Xbox One depending on how things play out. Sega Saturn is probably the right answer since it lead to their demise, but I'm going to go with the N64. Nintendo going with cartridge lost them every single rpg they had as Square, Enix, Capcom, etc all left Nintendo for Sony. I had a great time with the N64 as Nintendo, Rare, and Acclaim were firing on all cylinders this generation. If not for the Wii, and Nintendo's handheld systems the N64 and the resulting Gamecube might have ended them.



I think the N64 was the biggest whiff because all they had to do was compromise on the CD format and they likely would have won that generation easily.

GoldenEye, Mario 64, Zelda: OoT were likely 3/4 most popular games of that generation and Mario Kart 64 was way up there too, the hardware was definitely better than the Playstation overall, they just killed themselves by pissing away all their 3rd party support. The bigger 3rd party games they had like WCW/NWO and Turok 2 still even sold very well. 

If the N64 had relatively equivalent 3rd party support to the Playstation, over time it would have pulled ahead.

Last edited by Soundwave - on 14 October 2024

So with N64 are we ignoring Nintendo's TV Color Game system released in 1977?



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!