By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - 2024 US Presidential Election

PDF said:
EricHiggin said:

You're just saying it's more complicated because the Dems made it that way with poor immigration policies. Making a mess and then suggesting someone leave it that way isn't a reasonable answer to the problem. The illegal immigrants weren't supposed to be in America to begin with, so removing them makes perfect sense. Obama even understood this during his Presidency. If Biden and Harris saw the need for more immigrant farm workers, they should've figured out a better way to bring them in legally. It's not like rural Republican farmers would've been against that if they need the help.

Higher food prices aren't the problem, it's people not being able to pay for it because of the poorly run economy. The food sector doesn't make jack in terms of profits, so it's not like they're gouging. Kamala may have kept pointing the finger at them, but that's because it was easy, but she doesn't know what she's talking about. I grew up on a farm, so if you think the food industry is the problem then you clearly don't get it, because it's the least of your worries in terms of rich elite sleazeballs trying to empty your pockets.

The news media sucks for information besides perhaps the weather. Podcasts are so much better than the news it's not funny. They aren't perfect, but their multi-hour format allows people to get into all the details as well as hash them out if they're seriously looking to do so.

First off, I am a farm kid and continue to work with the Ag sector on policy. Your response (bolded) shows that you don't actually understand the complicated issue and are defaulting to what sounds simple :)

Both parties are to blame for our immigration policies. Farmers raise the workforce issues all the time especially H2-A visa program but republicans often block efforts. Even the "deporter in chief" did not attempt to remove over 12 million people. It will have a substantial impact on our economy if Trump is successful, which he won't be because of sanctuary states. Thinking through unintended consequences is important and our Ag sector already faces small margins, any increase in labor cost kills them.

I agree Kamala "price gouging" on groceries was an attempt at political messaging, trying to make something more complicated simple. I am not going to defend that. "Greedflation" does exist but groceries were the wrong target.  

Immigration is just one example. Tariffs are more complicated than just "another country pays". Ukraine war and why we should continue to aid them is more complicated than "why are we paying for someone else's war" messaging from the Republicans. Why inflation happened is more complicated than Republicans just blaming Biden because it happened during his term. All these things need to be explained but Trump and the Republicans used them effectively in their messensing because it's simple. 

Pretty short list of sanctuary States from what I can find. Very few in the central portion of the USA where most of the farming is besides maybe Cali.

How are all those illegals going to get to the farms to work? Even sanctuary cities within the non sanctuary States are too far from most farms.

What good is having those illegals in those sanctuary States or cities if they're not working on the farms, which is supposedly why they're there?

Ukraine isn't that complicated and wasn't from the start. You (USA) either make a deal with Russia or you potentially start WWIII with Russia. One or the other. This is Russia we're talking about. If they want Ukraine, they'll eventually take it unless you get serious and put boots on the ground. Otherwise you make a deal, and a deal is exactly what Trumps going to do because it's all you can do without burning trillions over a decade of war there, only for Russia to slowly take all of Ukraine anyway. Biden and Harris should've made a deal with Putin but didn't bother.

People need to wake up. Russia isn't some third world shithole, and neither is China. Treating them like that, will only lead to China becoming the new world super power sooner than later, and Russia would be right there supporting them. The only way the USA staves off losing their number 1 spot over the next decade is if they outperform economically, and that's looking 50/50 right about now.

Simple messaging has little to do with it. People knew the economy clearly wasn't doing well and yet they were constantly told it was great by the Dems and media. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on there. Those people remember being told all the 'negatives' about Trump in 2016 and how America was over if he won, and how things actually turned out, like the economy back then, so why assume all the 'negatives' said about him this time would be correct?



Around the Network
the-pi-guy said:

A lot of qualities that people tend to find appealing in leaders, are not good qualities for leaders.

I don't want "strong men". I want smart people, I want empathetic people.

Yes because when there's a screaming maniac in full sprint with a bomb strapped to his chest coming straight at you, you want the empathetic soldiers to make the call.

the-pi-guy said:

The RNC and the conservative media has done a substantially better job at lying to the country. 

These things are lies, because they're inconvenient truths. People would rather believe a lie, than believe they were bamboozled. 

So the majority of the country has been lied to... by republicans?  Not the team that 80% of national news casts, hollywood and talk shows favor; not the the team that said Joe Biden was "sharp as a tack" for 4 years; not the team that said the election would be close... nah, it's those damn republicans, who've only pointed out things that the left call "conspiracy theories", only for them to turn out to be true later.  



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

EricHiggin said:

Pretty short list of sanctuary States from what I can find. Very few in the central portion of the USA where most of the farming is besides maybe Cali.

How are all those illegals going to get to the farms to work? Even sanctuary cities within the non sanctuary States are too far from most farms.

What good is having those illegals in those sanctuary States or cities if they're not working on the farms, which is supposedly why they're there?

Illegal immigrants also do construction jobs, and other kinds of jobs.

EricHiggin said:

Ukraine isn't that complicated and wasn't from the start. You (USA) either make a deal with Russia or you potentially start WWIII with Russia. One or the other. This is Russia we're talking about. If they want Ukraine, they'll eventually take it unless you get serious and put boots on the ground. Otherwise you make a deal, and a deal is exactly what Trumps going to do because it's all you can do without burning trillions over a decade of war there, only for Russia to slowly take all of Ukraine anyway. Biden and Harris should've made a deal but didn't bother.

What deal do you think Russia would want more than Ukraine?
Just because someone promises a deal, doesn't mean one exists that would sway Russia. 

EricHiggin said:

People need to wake up. Russia isn't some third world shithole, and neither is China. Treating them like that, will only lead to China becoming the new world super power sooner than later, and Russia would be right there supporting them. The only way the USA staves off losing their number 1 spot over the next decade is if they outperform economically, and that's looking 50/50 right about now.

Russia isn't a first world superpower either. 

EricHiggin said:

Simple messaging has little to do with it. People knew the economy clearly wasn't doing well and yet they were constantly told it was great by the Dems and media. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on there. Those people remember being told all the 'negatives' about Trump in 2016 and how America was over if he won, and how things actually turned out, like the economy back then, so why assume all the 'negatives' said about him this time would be correct?

By most of the measures that people talk about, the economy is doing well.

The problem isn't that the economy was a lie. The problem is that the measures that we use for the economy are aggregates. It doesn't mean anything if America is wealthier than ever, if all of that wealth went to 5 people. Low unemployment rate doesn't mean anything if people need to have 3 jobs to survive. 

A lot of the negatives of Trump were right. People have short memories, and in a lot of cases they're in denial. It wasn't that bad, Trump was just trolling, he's just joking. The media was lying when they wrote about Trump suggesting windmills cause cancer, or that we should nuke a hurricane. All of the negatives are a lie or exaggeration. All the positive things are truth.



the-pi-guy said:
EricHiggin said:

Pretty short list of sanctuary States from what I can find. Very few in the central portion of the USA where most of the farming is besides maybe Cali.

How are all those illegals going to get to the farms to work? Even sanctuary cities within the non sanctuary States are too far from most farms.

What good is having those illegals in those sanctuary States or cities if they're not working on the farms, which is supposedly why they're there?

Illegal immigrants also do construction jobs, and other kinds of jobs.

EricHiggin said:

Ukraine isn't that complicated and wasn't from the start. You (USA) either make a deal with Russia or you potentially start WWIII with Russia. One or the other. This is Russia we're talking about. If they want Ukraine, they'll eventually take it unless you get serious and put boots on the ground. Otherwise you make a deal, and a deal is exactly what Trumps going to do because it's all you can do without burning trillions over a decade of war there, only for Russia to slowly take all of Ukraine anyway. Biden and Harris should've made a deal but didn't bother.

What deal do you think Russia would want more than Ukraine?
Just because someone promises a deal, doesn't mean one exists that would sway Russia. 

EricHiggin said:

People need to wake up. Russia isn't some third world shithole, and neither is China. Treating them like that, will only lead to China becoming the new world super power sooner than later, and Russia would be right there supporting them. The only way the USA staves off losing their number 1 spot over the next decade is if they outperform economically, and that's looking 50/50 right about now.

Russia isn't a first world superpower either. 

EricHiggin said:

Simple messaging has little to do with it. People knew the economy clearly wasn't doing well and yet they were constantly told it was great by the Dems and media. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on there. Those people remember being told all the 'negatives' about Trump in 2016 and how America was over if he won, and how things actually turned out, like the economy back then, so why assume all the 'negatives' said about him this time would be correct?

By most of the measures that people talk about, the economy is doing well.

The problem isn't that the economy was a lie. The problem is that the measures that we use for the economy are aggregates. It doesn't mean anything if America is wealthier than ever, if all of that wealth went to 5 people. Low unemployment rate doesn't mean anything if people need to have 3 jobs to survive. 

A lot of the negatives of Trump were right. People have short memories, and in a lot of cases they're in denial. It wasn't that bad, Trump was just trolling, he's just joking. The media was lying when they wrote about Trump suggesting windmills cause cancer, or that we should nuke a hurricane. All of the negatives are a lie or exaggeration. All the positive things are truth.

- Context. Read the prior posts.

- There is no deal Dems would make. 'Brown Bear Man' is almost as bad as 'Orange Man', which means block or ignore them at all costs. AT ALL COST$.

- Thanks for adding this, because now we can ignore Russia again.... WTF.... LOL.

- Excuses. The economy is great only means something to the voter if they're benefitting, so they'd have to be truly dense or purposely lying to say that.



IkePoR said:

Yes because when there's a screaming maniac in full sprint with a bomb strapped to his chest coming straight at you, you want the empathetic soldiers to make the call.

Yes you do. 

You don't want the sociopath who lets that maniac blow up the rest of the platoon so that you can get promoted instead. You want the empathetic person who will save their team. 

Do you think empathetic means 'nonviolent' or something? 

IkePoR said:

So the majority of the country has been lied to... by republicans?  Not the team that 80% of national news casts, hollywood and talk shows favor; not the the team that said Joe Biden was "sharp as a tack" for 4 years; not the team that said the election would be close... nah, it's those damn republicans, who've only pointed out things that the left call "conspiracy theories", only for them to turn out to be true later.  

Sure, if you ignore that a lot of these liberal news casts continue to bring on conservatives to appear unbiased.

If you ignore that Fox News is the biggest national news cast. If you ignore right wing radio, and right wing internet media. 

Really, I haven't seen any that have turned out to be true. I'm patiently waiting for 99% of the country to die of covid shots, and waiting for Bill Gates to come to my house. Did that happen already? 



Around the Network
the-pi-guy said:

"Illegal immigrants also do construction jobs, and other kinds of jobs."

Correct, they do other jobs like fentanyl dealing, smuggling, etc.

"What deal do you think Russia would want more than Ukraine?
Just because someone promises a deal, doesn't mean one exists that would sway Russia."

If you don't think Putin would go after Moldova next after getting Ukraine, then I'm sorry if you can't see the light.


"Russia isn't a first world superpower either."

Correct, again, however the Soviet Union used to be, and Putin desires that his Russia would go back to its glory days.



Pi-guy: "If you ignore that Fox News is the biggest national news cast. If you ignore right wing radio, and right wing internet media."

Sure Fox is #1. But are they bigger than the combined strength of NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, Facebook, etc.???



EricHiggin said:

- There is no deal Dems would make. 'Brown Bear Man' is almost as bad as 'Orange Man', which means block or ignore them at all costs. AT ALL COST$.

I didn't ask what deal Democrats would make, I asked what deal could possibly be made.

No Putin is a lot worse. He kills and arrests his political enemies. Which Trump hasn't done yet, and hopefully won't. 

EricHiggin said:

- Thanks for adding this, because now we can ignore Russia again.... WTF.... LOL.

Why does everything have to be so black and white with you? The world is complex. If you're going to try boiling everything down to simple answers, you're going to be wrong most of the time. 


Russia has a fraction of the economy of the US, they have worse weapons, and a worse military. 


None of this means that Russia can be ignored. Russia has a vested interest in manipulating the United States. If the US is led well, Russia isn't particularly a threat. If the US isn't, they can be a huge threat.

EricHiggin said:

- Excuses. The economy is great only means something to the voter if they're benefitting, so they'd have to be truly dense or purposely lying to say that.

It's not an excuse. 

It's about recognizing the complex reality, and how much of it is not designed for the average person. Actual left wingers want to redesign these things for the average person. Liberals are generally okay with the status quo, and right wingers generally want to break it down even further in favor of the rich.



BFR said:
Correct, they do other jobs like fentanyl dealing, smuggling, etc.

Fun fact: The vast majority of Fentanyl is brought into the country through legal points of entry by US citizens, while only 0.02% of arrests of illegal border crossers resulted in any fentanyl seizure. 



BFR said:

Pi-guy: "If you ignore that Fox News is the biggest national news cast. If you ignore right wing radio, and right wing internet media."

Sure Fox is #1. But are they bigger than the combined strength of NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, Facebook, etc.???

A lot of these channels push right wing content/have right wing guests as well, to appear unbiased or to fan some controversy for views.

Facebook is the biggest there, and they push plenty of right wing views.

Hundreds of local news stations are headed by the Sinclair group which also pushes right wing views.