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Forums - Politics Discussion - Attempted assassination on Trump

IkePoR said:
LegitHyperbole said:

People show their true colours in times like this. I've lost respect for many people, I thought Destiny was a good dude but he's either in severe need of mental health care atm or he's just plainly a bad person. There is an evilness in the American citizens that you can see now, just a cesspool of hatred brewing. It's saddening to see. At least it's not many that are supporting Destinys rants but it's enough to be scary.

Masks are off in times of intense stress and dire.  It's not just you, I've had a similar experience. People are openly verbal with their bitterness and cruel nature now.  These are the same people that said Trump is the villain for enabling racism.  

As for the gun matters, it's less about Americans stopping shootings and more about protection from the government itself.  With how divided the country is, everyone is picking sides and are making sure they have the most ammo.

Just curious, but do you condemn the rhetoric that Trump uses to criticize the Dems the same way you criticize the rhetoric that is used against Trump?

My personal opinion is that truth is the measure a lot of rhetoric should be measured against, not bitterness or cruelty. There is a lot of truth to the mainstream criticisms of Donald Trump, but I see a lot of lies in his criticisms of the Democrats...

That isn't to say no Democrat (mainstream or otherwise) has gone too far with their rhetoric, but I think there is a clear difference between most of the noise coming out of the two camps. 



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American politics is about emotions. The strongest emotion is fear. So using ever greater hyperbole and exaggeration the two sides attack and label each other. They both use the narrative: "If the other side wins, the country is finished, your children will have no future, so not let them win!!"

Only the young and naive take this language literal in the olden days.

But unfortunate in a world with information bubbles and with social media working as a megaphone to continue to repeat and hammer these kinds of rhetoric home, it has a brainwashing effect that have people believe the other side is pure evil.

It is like literally people of the same country unable to speak or understand each other any more, consumed by their own confirmation bias.

People should just take a step back, take a deep breath and learn the power of nuance.



Well, as far as the current state of American politics: There's one thing you can say, never a dull moment in the USA.



Tober said:

American politics is about emotions. The strongest emotion is fear.

I disagree, the strongest emotion is anger.  Fear can lead to anger, as I believe it did with this shooter. The shooter shot in anger, not in fear.



sundin13 said:
IkePoR said:

Masks are off in times of intense stress and dire.  It's not just you, I've had a similar experience. People are openly verbal with their bitterness and cruel nature now.  These are the same people that said Trump is the villain for enabling racism.  

As for the gun matters, it's less about Americans stopping shootings and more about protection from the government itself.  With how divided the country is, everyone is picking sides and are making sure they have the most ammo.

Just curious, but do you condemn the rhetoric that Trump uses to criticize the Dems the same way you criticize the rhetoric that is used against Trump?

My personal opinion is that truth is the measure a lot of rhetoric should be measured against, not bitterness or cruelty. There is a lot of truth to the mainstream criticisms of Donald Trump, but I see a lot of lies in his criticisms of the Democrats...

That isn't to say no Democrat (mainstream or otherwise) has gone too far with their rhetoric, but I think there is a clear difference between most of the noise coming out of the two camps. 

What rhetoric would that be exactly?  Could you be more specific? Personally I can't think of a worse rhetoric than "this person is basically Hitler" and all the loose and not-so-loose references to him being killed the other side has mongered in the mainstream for eight years.

I agree that truth should be what rhetoric should me measured on.  The bitterness and cruelty I'm referencing is the open, zealous cries of demise for someone they don't like.  I'd bet money most of the same ones wishing death on the man have no idea what he actually did as president, only that they feel a certain way, those feelings being installed by the same media that despises him.  

Republicans think democrats are wrong and the far left is evil in their eyes. The democrats think orange man bad because the tv told them and that he should die.  Is that the clear difference? 



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

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Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:

Losses in one area of injuries or deaths with gains in another doesn't count. You can't explain away racism like degrading a black person by pointing out you're not calling them the N word. Degrading is degrading. Crime is crime. Deaths are deaths.

Are you really suggesting that unless you can stop all crime, that guns need to remain?

Then why make drugs like crack, cocaine, meth, fentanyl, acid and more illegal? You won't ever stop Marijuana.

Have you ever tried to save someones life when they are suffering from a stab wound verses a bullet? The wound is easier to manage and they have a higher probability of surviving.

EricHiggin said:

Australia isn't America. What works in one place doesn't automatically work in another, and sometimes even backfires and makes things worse. Canadians have tons of unregistered guns, and we also have issues with leadership, but we don't shoot at them, we just honk our horns, and they freeze our bank accounts.

Gun control works. It's factually proven at this point... And it doesn't matter what nation it is, when implemented correctly, it works.
Australia, South Korea, Poland, Qatar, United Kingdom, Brunei, Taiwan and many more.

Arguing it "won't work" without ever trying it is defeatist logic when overwhelmingly the evidence points to gun control being extremely effective in reducing gun-related crime and incidents.

And let's face it... The USA has one of the highest rates of gun related crime and incidents in the world, when as a nation is it going to recognize that problem and start doing something about it?

How many more people need to be killed?

At least I could go to school as a kid and not worry about being murdered by a gun-touting lunatic in Australia.

EricHiggin said:

The fact you included plots tells me you're not serious. I mean we're really going to include everyone who's ever thought about killing someone else? Grenades aren't guns either. They also threw shoes at him. Does America need footwear control?

The fact I made those distinctions in order to split the incidents apart so you can ascertain the correct facts in the correct context is me not being serious? What kind of false logic is that? If I wasn't serious I would have obfuscated that.

These are "attempts" where legitimate plans and motives were in play. Not just a random twitter post.

Footwear control is already a thing, high-risk work environments already require specific footwear to ensure safety.

In-fact, any activity that brings in risk to individuals should require multiple layers of control, training or licensing or all of the above.
You don't get to jump behind the wheel of a car and drive unlicensed, unregistered... And screech "Freedom!". Just doesn't work that way, so why do it with guns?

My initial and overall point was about assassinations and you compared that to mass shootings. I can only hope you weren't being serious or don't get it because that would mean 4 or more Presidents at the same time, which hasn't ever happened and is just absurd based on what I said.

I'm not suggesting anything, I made a point, and you're either not being serious and equating it with something else or again, just don't get it.

As for why not try it and see if it works, everyone knows once something get's implemented, it's very difficult to remove, especially if it get's implemented at the highest levels of Government, then it's darn near impossible to remove. Yet even when some entity does all the hard work, or comes along with the power and ability to remove something, and does finally remove it, then the next person who comes along with enough power will likely just put it back into place. It's pretty rare when something get's removed and stays removed. You're unaware of this?

You tried to make a point about assassinations and guns with mass shootings, in another Country at that, which was already outside the point. Then assassination plots, the one's known anyway, which is way outside the point because they don't necessarily include guns, with an example of throwing a grenade, which isn't a gun. Why not take into account throwing shoes, which happened, was a ridiculous point to show how far you were from the main point already, so far in no way could I take it seriously. Again, you're not being genuine or you just don't get it.

I wont be responding again FYI. Clearly there is a large disconnect here that looks to be insurmountable, and I'm not going to take part in playing games or raising the temperature. Everyone see's where that's got America.



the-pi-guy said:
Dante9 said:

It's just fucking crazy. Things have gotten way out of hand with politics and tribalism.
This is what you get when a candidate is branded Satan himself in all the media, and everything is hyperbolic and even a fantasy world for some people. They think they are fighting against Sauron or something. Talk about true hate speech, this is it, if there ever was such a thing. But it's okay when it comes from the holier than thou side.
Or, if you want to go the conspiracy route, they wanted to take him out because they are running out of lawsuits and other ways to stop him. He's a fly in the ointment for the deep state.

Trying to think of which side likes calling for Civil War, likes talking about how the other side is made up of terrorists, pedos.

There's calling for civil war and then there's just mentioning it for reasons, like the temperatures rising to high and needs to stop. How often do Reps call for civil war? And no, any Dems thinking there's some conspiratorial secret code going on between Reps doesn't count because it's not a thing.

I'm not going to list all the negative things the Dems say about the Reps, Trump in particular, because it's too long and we all know it. Neither side is void of this.

As to the X post. How many Reps think what happened on Jan 6th, beyond the protest itself, was acceptable? How many Reps think DJT should be assassinated? Isn't DJT the Rep candidate (very soon to be official), chosen by the Rep voters? If you're against Trump and those voters, willing to take a shot at Trump, what does that make you? It doesn't automatically make you a Dem, but it also certainly means you're against Trump and those who stand behind him. Anybody can call themselves whatever they want, but it doesn't necessarily make it true.

I'm also not going to list all the Dem violence, because we all know as well. Neither side is void of this.

Taking a side, then trying to prove it's all or only the opposition, is just taking the assassination level temperatures and turning them up even more. It's the kind of thing that leads to civil war. So if civil was isn't what you want, you shouldn't be taking part in that.



Chrkeller said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Too bad the shooter didn’t have better aim. And I would say the same thing if someone missed at Biden.

The quicker these two old corrupt MF’ers are out of the picture, the better for our country.

If he had better aim, we would have a riot on our hand, maybe a civil war.  I hate Trump, but this is great news he missed.  I don't even want to think about how MAGA supporters would react had he been hit.  

I don't think it would have led to civil war, but Jan 6th would've ended up being seen as a legit peaceful protest compared to what would've followed.

What I'm most scared of is another attempt on Trump or even one on Biden, whether it be motivated by politics, enemies, or just bad actors looking to cause ultimate chaos for the hell of it. That's something that could very well spark civil war, especially if it's fatal.



BFR said:
Tober said:

American politics is about emotions. The strongest emotion is fear.

I disagree, the strongest emotion is anger.  Fear can lead to anger, as I believe it did with this shooter. The shooter shot in anger, not in fear.

I'd say both are about equal. It just depends on what those in power want.

Do they want you to hide or vote in terror?

or

Do they want you to shoot or vote in rage?



EricHiggin said:

There's calling for civil war and then there's just mentioning it for reasons, like the temperatures rising to high and needs to stop. How often do Reps call for civil war? And no, any Dems thinking there's some conspiratorial secret code going on between Reps doesn't count because it's not a thing.

I'm not going to list all the negative things the Dems say about the Reps, Trump in particular, because it's too long and we all know it. Neither side is void of this.

As to the X post. How many Reps think what happened on Jan 6th, beyond the protest itself, was acceptable? How many Reps think DJT should be assassinated? Isn't DJT the Rep candidate (very soon to be official), chosen by the Rep voters? If you're against Trump and those voters, willing to take a shot at Trump, what does that make you? It doesn't automatically make you a Dem, but it also certainly means you're against Trump and those who stand behind him. Anybody can call themselves whatever they want, but it doesn't necessarily make it true.

I'm also not going to list all the Dem violence, because we all know as well. Neither side is void of this.

Taking a side, then trying to prove it's all or only the opposition, is just taking the assassination level temperatures and turning them up even more. It's the kind of thing that leads to civil war. So if civil was isn't what you want, you shouldn't be taking part in that.