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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Gluttons For Punishment

LegitHyperbole said:
Chrkeller said:

I like a challenge but not punishing. No boss in Souls ever took me more than 6 tries. Sekiro wore me out, Butterfly took like 18 tries. The flaw in sekiro is having to clear out enemies near a boss to retry. Souls is better because you can speed run to the fog wall.

You can speed run in sekiro too but there is usually an idol right beside every major boss. I suppose you mean the mini bosses, yeah on my first run that pissed me off too but on subsequent runs I just run past fodder enemies and go straight for enemies with deathblow circles. On NG+3 now and pretty much skipping many of those too. If you make it to Genichiro and beat him you've learned every system of the game and it becomes less punishing and every time you die it's a mistake you made yourself (aside from the Fromsoft camera which can get you killed) and you never feel like anything was designed to be difficult for the sake of it, something that is implemented into soulsborne quite a lot like some silly long string of animations or boss reach that is arena wide. Sekiro is a much tighter experience once you have the basic skill set down after Genichiro. 

If you're dead set on killing every enemy or grinding for skill points you can pretty much, 90% of the time stealth everything if you feel like it, Ai is super forgiving in that regard allowing you to rush enemies too. 

It has been a while, but I recall some boss (or mini boss) on steps surrounded by a few enemies.  It was annoying to have to repeat the fight over and over, because the enemies had to be cleared out every time.  Just seemed like bad design.  It might not be as bad as I recall.

Edit

I also couldn't stand the damage output by bosses.  Christ one attack can take 70% HP.  Felt like errors aren't allowed in Sekiro.

Souls is tough but way more forgiving.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 09 July 2024

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The Last Wish raid in Destiny 2:Forsaken immediately comes to my mind. My clan and I always attempted the World’s First run for every new raid, but Last Wish was by far the hardest to complete. It took us a whopping 28 hours to finally beat.

For reference, the clan that beat Last Wish first took nearly 19 hours. The Vault encounter alone nearly made us quit as nearly half of the 28 hours were just for that damn encounter



Chrkeller said:
LegitHyperbole said:

You can speed run in sekiro too but there is usually an idol right beside every major boss. I suppose you mean the mini bosses, yeah on my first run that pissed me off too but on subsequent runs I just run past fodder enemies and go straight for enemies with deathblow circles. On NG+3 now and pretty much skipping many of those too. If you make it to Genichiro and beat him you've learned every system of the game and it becomes less punishing and every time you die it's a mistake you made yourself (aside from the Fromsoft camera which can get you killed) and you never feel like anything was designed to be difficult for the sake of it, something that is implemented into soulsborne quite a lot like some silly long string of animations or boss reach that is arena wide. Sekiro is a much tighter experience once you have the basic skill set down after Genichiro. 

If you're dead set on killing every enemy or grinding for skill points you can pretty much, 90% of the time stealth everything if you feel like it, Ai is super forgiving in that regard allowing you to rush enemies too. 

It has been a while, but I recall some boss (or mini boss) on steps surrounded by a few enemies.  It was annoying to have to repeat the fight over and over, because the enemies had to be cleared out every time.  Just seemed like bad design.  It might not be as bad as I recall.

Edit

I also couldn't stand the damage output by bosses.  Christ one attack can take 70% HP.  Felt like errors aren't allowed in Sekiro.

Souls is tough but way more forgiving.

I know the spot your on about, before Butterfly and it is pretty egregious but they put an NPC there who will take aggro if you talk to him while you basically stealth rush the NPC's. It never gets like that on the game again plus the area is completely optional side content. 



G2ThaUNiT said:

The Last Wish raid in Destiny 2:Forsaken immediately comes to my mind. My clan and I always attempted the World’s First run for every new raid, but Last Wish was by far the hardest to complete. It took us a whopping 28 hours to finally beat.

For reference, the clan that beat Last Wish first took nearly 19 hours. The Vault encounter alone nearly made us quit as nearly half of the 28 hours were just for that damn encounter

Oh yeah, I forgot about MMO raids, they are thee best example of being an absolute masochist or a bunch of masochists. Never played Destiny raids but I can imagine if it's anything like end game FF14. Is it possible to clear Destiny raids with a PUG? 



LegitHyperbole said:
Chrkeller said:

It has been a while, but I recall some boss (or mini boss) on steps surrounded by a few enemies.  It was annoying to have to repeat the fight over and over, because the enemies had to be cleared out every time.  Just seemed like bad design.  It might not be as bad as I recall.

Edit

I also couldn't stand the damage output by bosses.  Christ one attack can take 70% HP.  Felt like errors aren't allowed in Sekiro.

Souls is tough but way more forgiving.

I know the spot your on about, before Butterfly and it is pretty egregious but they put an NPC there who will take aggro if you talk to him while you basically stealth rush the NPC's. It never gets like that on the game again plus the area is completely optional side content. 

I often did wonder if I took the wrong path a few times in the game.  I might grab is on steam and give it another go.  I do love from software.  



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Chrkeller said:
LegitHyperbole said:

You can speed run in sekiro too but there is usually an idol right beside every major boss. I suppose you mean the mini bosses, yeah on my first run that pissed me off too but on subsequent runs I just run past fodder enemies and go straight for enemies with deathblow circles. On NG+3 now and pretty much skipping many of those too. If you make it to Genichiro and beat him you've learned every system of the game and it becomes less punishing and every time you die it's a mistake you made yourself (aside from the Fromsoft camera which can get you killed) and you never feel like anything was designed to be difficult for the sake of it, something that is implemented into soulsborne quite a lot like some silly long string of animations or boss reach that is arena wide. Sekiro is a much tighter experience once you have the basic skill set down after Genichiro. 

If you're dead set on killing every enemy or grinding for skill points you can pretty much, 90% of the time stealth everything if you feel like it, Ai is super forgiving in that regard allowing you to rush enemies too. 

It has been a while, but I recall some boss (or mini boss) on steps surrounded by a few enemies.  It was annoying to have to repeat the fight over and over, because the enemies had to be cleared out every time.  Just seemed like bad design.  It might not be as bad as I recall.

Edit

I also couldn't stand the damage output by bosses.  Christ one attack can take 70% HP.  Felt like errors aren't allowed in Sekiro.

Souls is tough but way more forgiving.

Haven't done this since 2019, I remember it being possible to stealth more enemies as their aggro is taken by the NPC. I funked it up but still not much hassle as I was expecting. 

If stuff like this is keeping you from the game, this is a once off. As for damage output you can use a consumable item that reduces that a fuck ton, the Blue sugar item and there is plenty of them for every boss but as the idea is to have a full health bar for your posture regeneration it doesn't matter how hard a boss hits you, ideally you shouldn't be getting hit or healing to full if even mildly damaged. 



LegitHyperbole said:
G2ThaUNiT said:

The Last Wish raid in Destiny 2:Forsaken immediately comes to my mind. My clan and I always attempted the World’s First run for every new raid, but Last Wish was by far the hardest to complete. It took us a whopping 28 hours to finally beat.

For reference, the clan that beat Last Wish first took nearly 19 hours. The Vault encounter alone nearly made us quit as nearly half of the 28 hours were just for that damn encounter

Oh yeah, I forgot about MMO raids, they are thee best example of being an absolute masochist or a bunch of masochists. Never played Destiny raids but I can imagine if it's anything like end game FF14. Is it possible to clear Destiny raids with a PUG? 

It’s certainly possible for most Destiny raids since there’s usually at least one person dedicated to taking care of enemies. But there are like 2-3 raids in particular where I would advise against teaming up with a PUG because in those, you have to have perfect communication, execution, and equipment. Last Wish is by far the hardest though.

Other MMO raid that comes to mind is Icecrown Citadel in WoW. But that was more of a marathon since it took us weeks to beat. Hard yes, but you obviously had a double digit number of players participating, so it was a fun time as well. Destiny raids only have 6 players and constant first person combat, on top of figuring out each encounters mechanics. So for that I have to vote for Last Wish. 



G2ThaUNiT said:
LegitHyperbole said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about MMO raids, they are thee best example of being an absolute masochist or a bunch of masochists. Never played Destiny raids but I can imagine if it's anything like end game FF14. Is it possible to clear Destiny raids with a PUG? 

It’s certainly possible for most Destiny raids since there’s usually at least one person dedicated to taking care of enemies. But there are like 2-3 raids in particular where I would advise against teaming up with a PUG because in those, you have to have perfect communication, execution, and equipment. Last Wish is by far the hardest though.

Other MMO raid that comes to mind is Icecrown Citadel in WoW. But that was more of a marathon since it took us weeks to beat. Hard yes, but you obviously had a double digit number of players participating, so it was a fun time as well. Destiny raids only have 6 players and constant first person combat, on top of figuring out each encounters mechanics. So for that I have to vote for Last Wish. 

FF14 raids are PUGable so I guess they can't be that bad in comparison but it takes shear will and determination to PUG newer content. I'm curious to see how a raid in Destiny 2 is would work with it being an FPS but the file size is atrocious. I'd have to assume mechanics would have a marker telling you where to go or an objective list or something. 



LegitHyperbole said:
G2ThaUNiT said:

It’s certainly possible for most Destiny raids since there’s usually at least one person dedicated to taking care of enemies. But there are like 2-3 raids in particular where I would advise against teaming up with a PUG because in those, you have to have perfect communication, execution, and equipment. Last Wish is by far the hardest though.

Other MMO raid that comes to mind is Icecrown Citadel in WoW. But that was more of a marathon since it took us weeks to beat. Hard yes, but you obviously had a double digit number of players participating, so it was a fun time as well. Destiny raids only have 6 players and constant first person combat, on top of figuring out each encounters mechanics. So for that I have to vote for Last Wish. 

FF14 raids are PUGable so I guess they can't be that bad in comparison but it takes shear will and determination to PUG newer content. I'm curious to see how a raid in Destiny 2 is would work with it being an FPS but the file size is atrocious. I'd have to assume mechanics would have a marker telling you where to go or an objective list or something. 

If you wanna take a look at how insane the Last Wish raid in particular is, here's a quick rundown video. The guy quickly goes over all the Mechanics and Encounters. There's like 20 mechanics to this raid lol. The final boss is INSANE when it comes to mechanics. So much so that this guy actually made a separate video on how to defeat her properly. He only includes the cheese way to defeat her in the first video, but that obviously wasn't an option when the raid first released. 

And no, there are no waypoints or objective lists. Your fireteam has to figure everything out on their own no matter how many times y'all wipe trying to figure out the mechanics. Although waypoints are for the most part self explanatory since the raids are mostly linear.



G2ThaUNiT said:
LegitHyperbole said:

FF14 raids are PUGable so I guess they can't be that bad in comparison but it takes shear will and determination to PUG newer content. I'm curious to see how a raid in Destiny 2 is would work with it being an FPS but the file size is atrocious. I'd have to assume mechanics would have a marker telling you where to go or an objective list or something. 

If you wanna take a look at how insane the Last Wish raid in particular is, here's a quick rundown video. The guy quickly goes over all the Mechanics and Encounters. There's like 20 mechanics to this raid lol. The final boss is INSANE when it comes to mechanics. So much so that this guy actually made a separate video on how to defeat her properly. He only includes the cheese way to defeat her in the first video, but that obviously wasn't an option when the raid first released. 

And no, there are no waypoints or objective lists. Your fireteam has to figure everything out on their own no matter how many times y'all wipe trying to figure out the mechanics. Although waypoints are for the most part self explanatory since the raids are mostly linear.

Wow. That's quite a bit more complex than I was expecting, no wonder it took ya'll so long, I'm surprised it wasn't longer. Lots of wipeable conditions too outside of simply wiping from dying and no healer, tank or buffing class which is mind boggling. It's a raid with all DPS.