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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Rumor/Leak for specific RAM and storage capacity of the Switch sucessor (Centro Leak)

Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

8 gb at 2x the memory bandwidth of a 10 gb....  I'm pretty sure the 8 gb at 2x the bandwidth wins.

There is way more to it than just ram.  Data has to be moved on and off the ram.  The S2 has more ram than the Series S but it is half the speed.  

You're moving the goal posts now, we're talking about whether 12GB is enough size, it is for most modern games, the Series S is already proof of that, GTA VI will run on it at 8GB so does virtually every next gen game to date. 

Given the available choices, Nintendo actually went with higher bandwidth performance (LPDDR5X instead of LPDDR5). If they went with LPDDR5 like Steam Deck and ROG Ally you're likely talking about only 80-88GB/sec bandwidth, this will be a healthy amount more than that. 

LPDDR5X is about the best you can get right now for a device that has to be portable, this is RAM generally reserved for $1000 phones and tablets at the moment, and there's more of it than the Series S. This is terrific news and bodes well for a GPU that is quite powerful as well. 

I'm not moving anything.  Performance is ram and bandwidth.  The S2 has 20% more ram but minus 50% speed.  Just facts.  The bandwidth is the limiting factor like I've said for a year now.

By comparison to high, the 4090 has 24 gb, which is great, but it is also 1000 gb/s.  Don't under estimate bandwidth. 

The good news is the deck runs games, and the S2 is more powerful.  Low resolution, low settings and 30 fps on big games is feasible.  



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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

You're moving the goal posts now, we're talking about whether 12GB is enough size, it is for most modern games, the Series S is already proof of that, GTA VI will run on it at 8GB so does virtually every next gen game to date. 

Given the available choices, Nintendo actually went with higher bandwidth performance (LPDDR5X instead of LPDDR5). If they went with LPDDR5 like Steam Deck and ROG Ally you're likely talking about only 80-88GB/sec bandwidth, this will be a healthy amount more than that. 

LPDDR5X is about the best you can get right now for a device that has to be portable, this is RAM generally reserved for $1000 phones and tablets at the moment, and there's more of it than the Series S. This is terrific news and bodes well for a GPU that is quite powerful as well. 

I'm not moving anything.  Performance is ram and bandwidth.  The S2 has 20% more ram but minus 50% speed.  Just facts.  The bandwidth is the limiting factor like I've said for a year now.

By comparison to high, the 4090 has 24 gb, which is great, but it is also 1000 gb/s.  Don't under estimate bandwidth. 

The good news is the deck runs games, and the S2 is more powerful.  Low resolution, low settings and 30 fps on big games is feasible.  

Nintendo chose the higher bandwidth solution. A Switch 2 the size of a laptop is a Switch 2 that only sells 20-30 million units, Nintendo is in the business of selling 150 million systems, not a niche amount of hardware for tech nerds. 

LPDDR5X is a fantastic performance choice, it's the higher end of the two options they realistically had the chose from (LPDDR5X or LPDDR5). Switch 2 will have more RAM than the Series S and higher bandwidth than the Steam Deck and ROG Ally ... this is a very nice compromise that still is cognizant of a having a good performing machine. Wii/DS/3DS/Wii U this definitely is not, 12GB of LPDDR5X RAM even today is something really only used in quite expensive mobile devices. Nintendo fans should be quite happy with this news, the main reason to use LPDDR5X is if you want higher performance from your hardware, the fact that they went that route indicates they want a system that has a fairly good level of performance, otherwise you don't need the more expensive RAM choice. 



Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

I'm not moving anything.  Performance is ram and bandwidth.  The S2 has 20% more ram but minus 50% speed.  Just facts.  The bandwidth is the limiting factor like I've said for a year now.

By comparison to high, the 4090 has 24 gb, which is great, but it is also 1000 gb/s.  Don't under estimate bandwidth. 

The good news is the deck runs games, and the S2 is more powerful.  Low resolution, low settings and 30 fps on big games is feasible.  

Nintendo chose the higher bandwidth solution. A Switch 2 the size of a laptop is a Switch 2 that only sells 20-30 million units, Nintendo is in the business of selling 150 million systems, not a niche amount of hardware for tech nerds. 

LPDDR5X is a fantastic performance choice, it's the higher end of the two options they realistically had the chose from. Switch 2 will have more RAM than the Series S and higher bandwidth than the Steam Deck and ROG Ally ... this is a very nice compromise that still is cognizant of a having a good performing machine. Wii/DS/3DS/Wii U this definitely is not, 12GB of LPDDR5X RAM even today is something really only used in quite expensive electronics. 

Both of the following statements can be true, they are not mutually exclusive:

A) Nintendo went high end for a portable 

B) S2 will have a memory bandwidth bottleneck compared to home electronics 



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Soundwave said:

12GB is more than the XBox Series S in total RAM, LPDDR5X is only used right now in premium $1000 mobile phones and tablets, it will have more bandwidth than a Steam Deck or ROG Ally, 120GB/sec is enough to feed a GPU running in the 4 TFLOP docked range. I'd rather have 12GB RAM @120GB/sec instead of 16GB @a lower bandwidth of 80GB/sec. 

False. LPDDR5X is used in more than just $1000 phones and tablets.
It's in MiniPC's and Laptops as well, for example: https://psref.lenovo.com/Product/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_P14s_Gen_4_AMD
OneXPlayer handheld PC uses LPDDR5X. - https://onexplayerstore.com/products/onexfly?variant=46620430663974

Actual Ram vs Usable Ram is an important distinction to make, one which I outlined prior.
Just because a console has 12GB of Ram, doesn't mean it can use it all for gaming... Microsoft's Xbox Series S OS/Background tasks use less than 2GB.

And again... If the Switch 2.0 has 4GB allocated to the OS/Background tasks, then it will be on par with the Series S in terms of available memory for gaming.

We are at the point where we don't need to choose 12GB @120GB/s or 16GB @ 80GB/s... It should just be 16GB @120GB/s.

I would personally prefer bandwidth closer to 200GB/s for better 1080P performance as Nintendo gamers tend to promote/hype the fact these machines can output to a Television, so it needs all the help it can get on a big canvas... And the best way to do that is with oodles of fillrate.

Teraflops is a useless and irrelevant metric... 120GB/s is not enough for great 1080P gaming, especially when you start to bog it down with tons of alpha effects and ray tracing.

Soundwave said:

Nintendo's engineers once put it best, even when you give people reasonably speced hardware techies miss the point and just want more, more, more, there's no satisfying that audience. 

I always want more. More for my money is -not- a bad thing... If you argue otherwise, then you are anti-consumer.

Soundwave said:

This is pretty darn good tech and I think a lot of people will appreciate this much power in a portable device, this is nothing like the Wii/DS days where Nintendo used completely ancient hardware, this is more like the NES/SNES/N64/GameCube era, reasonably powerful hardware for probably a fair price but I think this is not going to be that cheap, $449.99 is my guess to launch with and that's fair given that this is a huge leap beyond the $349.99 OLED Switch which is selling just fine even now. 

Not really.

This is not generational-leading like the NES/SNES/N64/Gamecube, it's still rumoured to be weaker than all the current gen consoles. Even the Series S.

Soundwave said:

Nintendo will sell more than the Playstation and XBox again if they have their software ducks in a row and it looks like Switch 1 given the extra little time will cruise past and crush the PS2's LTD record too. This should be powerful enough to handle plenty of PS5/XBSS/SX ports with the help of DLSS. A fan in the dock this time is interesting too, it tells me they are going to push this chip probably harder than the current Switch. 

That is a baseless assertion.
The device is not even out yet, we don't even know what it's hardware or form factor it is.

People made the claim that the 3DS was going to be a knock-out success based on the DS printing cash.
People made the claim that the WiiU was going to be a knock-out success based on the Wii printing cash.

I suggest waiting to see how the device is received by consumers before making baseless and outlandish claims.

It's still a handheld, so DLSS/Higher clocks are only going to take you so far when you start comparing it against Xbox, PC and Playstation though... It's also releasing mid-generation, so it's going to be outdated very quickly once the next-gen consoles start rolling out in a few years.

I wish Nintendo to have a ton of success, we need every single piece of competition we can get to keep the market healthy, I'll be a buyer, whatever the console ends up being.

Soundwave said:

I'm pretty happy with this news, I was expecting LPDDR5 only like the Steam Deck and ROG Ally, and maybe 128GB internal storage of UFS 2.2 or something like that, UFS 3.1 is still for today quite fast and 256GB is comfortably enough to download even the largest monster PS5 game and still have room left over for probably several Nintendo games. That's more than I expected. Also was not expecting a fan in the dock, thought it would just be another hollow dock that does nothing but HDMI pass through, a dock with an actual cooling solution inside can push a chip much harder, even with the existing Switch we're learning the Tegra X1 can do some crazy shit when pushed at higher clocks, like running Switch software at 4K resolution even. 

Steam Deck and Rog Ally are only targeting 720P. Keep that in mind... Hence their bandwidth requirements are lower.

haxxiy said:

It's not 7,600, it's 7,500 MT/s, which does give a nice even 120 GB/s. Amusingly you did type the whole calculation here with the incorrect value but then used the correct one in the next quote.

To be fair there is a DDR5 standard at 7600, it's just not a *LPDDR5* one, so maybe that's what you had in mind.

It could be 3200MT/s... It's not out and not verified, it's all rumour.

But yes, I did make that mistake, thanks for picking up on it.

Mar1217 said:

@Pemalite

"Nintendo's OS tends to be memory hungry and will likely steal 2-4GB of that 12GB leaving 8-10GB for developers"

Are you serious saying that ? We are speaking of the same Nintendo that's basically using less memory for its current OS (0.7GB) than they did with the freaking WiiU(1GB) ?

I was always under the impression that the Switch OS had 1GB allocated to the OS/Background tasks.
If that has changed, I would be interested to see your source of information to verify that.

And let's face it, the Switch OS is slow and stuttery still, it needs more CPU time, it needs more Ram... Better than the horrible WiiU OS, but still not enough.

We also need to remember that the Switch OS also lacks many features the other consoles have, add those features in... Then increase your memory usage.

Mar1217 said:

Most likely they're gonna go for a similar tactic to achieve a sleek/clean uncluttered OS. I don't see them using more than 2GB for they what they would try to achieve.

It will be based on *Nix and closed source components, won't do much for security and piracy though.

I wouldn't be surprised if they push more than 2GB as people want new features... Like Voice Chat, Video Streaming, Themes, Social/Party aspects, Apps like Web Browsers and even other services, which Microsoft is pushing heavily front and center.
If Nintendo wants to bring it's console into the current generation, then it's going to need more Ram for that.

Doctor_MG said:

Nintendos OS isn't memory hungry though. Switch OS uses 1GB. PS4 was 3.5GB for reference, and I believe PS5 is the same. Nintendo could easily keep the memory allotment the same as the OG Switch while still beefing up the OS (making it snappier, added features) since the bandwidth is almost 5x faster. Multitasking would really be the only Achilles heel here. 

In addition, 12GB may not be great in comparison to stationary console gaming, but we aren't dealing with that. The texture resolution for the majority of the games is going to be reduced in comparison to what is found on Series X/PS5, and it will still look great on the small screen. It won't look as great on the large screen, but that's the compromise you get when you are limited to mobile specification.

As above... It is certainly memory hungry for the "work" and features the OS has. Which isn't a lot... And it still ends up being slow on top of it.

Chrkeller said:

I will say 12 gb isn't near enough. One of the reasons I upgraded from the 4070 is because 12 gb gets filled very quickly. Don't misunderstand me, for a portable it is great.

The 4070 gets to use all it's Ram for itself.
..You still have System Memory to alleviate those pressures.

Ray Tracing is very memory demanding.

In a console, it's all in one... Everything needs to share/fight for that limited memory pool.


Soundwave said:

LPDDR5X is about the best you can get right now for a device that has to be portable, this is RAM generally reserved for $1000 phones and tablets at the moment, and there's more of it than the Series S. This is terrific news and bodes well for a GPU that is quite powerful as well. 

Just remember, you can use LPDDR4 and outperform LPDDR5X. It's all about how wide you want to take it.

LPDDR5X is power-enhanced, it's not the fastest memory on the market.

Conversely, it's rumoured to not even use fast LPDDR5X Ram, so it's benefits are rather limited anyway outside of power.



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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

Nintendo chose the higher bandwidth solution. A Switch 2 the size of a laptop is a Switch 2 that only sells 20-30 million units, Nintendo is in the business of selling 150 million systems, not a niche amount of hardware for tech nerds. 

LPDDR5X is a fantastic performance choice, it's the higher end of the two options they realistically had the chose from. Switch 2 will have more RAM than the Series S and higher bandwidth than the Steam Deck and ROG Ally ... this is a very nice compromise that still is cognizant of a having a good performing machine. Wii/DS/3DS/Wii U this definitely is not, 12GB of LPDDR5X RAM even today is something really only used in quite expensive electronics. 

Both of the following statements can be true, they are not mutually exclusive:

A) Nintendo went high end for a portable 

B) S2 will have a memory bandwidth bottleneck compared to home electronics 

C) ROG Ally runs pretty much all current gen games with slower LPDDR5 RAM. 

This is more bandwidth than a $700 ROG Ally (the higher end model). Significantly more actually. 

D) This likely also indicates a GPU that requires that extra bandwidth. A ROG Ally crushes a PS4 by being able to run many games a PS4 couldn't dream of running, so it should be asked why Nintendo needs even more bandwidth than a ROG Ally. Well it probably points to a Tegra T239 that is fairly performant. If Nintendo just wanted PS4 tier performance, you don't need LPDDR5X for that, not with even a 2022 era chip. 



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Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

Both of the following statements can be true, they are not mutually exclusive:

A) Nintendo went high end for a portable 

B) S2 will have a memory bandwidth bottleneck compared to home electronics 

C) ROG Ally runs pretty much all current gen games with slower LPDDR5 RAM. 

This is more bandwidth than a $700 ROG Ally (the higher end model).

D) This likely also indicates a GPU that requires that extra bandwidth. A ROG Ally crushes a PS4 by being able to run many games a PS4 couldn't dream of running, so it should be asked why Nintendo needs even more bandwidth than a ROG Ally. Well it probably points to a Tegra T239 that is fairly performant. If Nintendo just wanted PS4 tier performance, you don't need LPDDR5X for that, not with even a 2022 era chip. 

I feel like you are fighting arguments nobody is making.  Nobody is saying it can't run current games.  It will, similar to Rog.  720p, low settings at 30 to 45 fps.  If people are happy with that for third party, all good here.  

Crushes the ps4 is likely an exaggeration, but not worth fighting.  Better than a ps4, sure.

The S2 will be between the ps4 and series s.....  like I said 12 months ago.

Day 1 here.  Shit like LM4, pikmin 5 and zelda are going to look great.  Huge jump over the current Switch. 

Edit

I think Perma's point, and I agree, games in 2 to 3 years are going to require more than they do today.  So half way through the S2's life will be challenging for big AAA content.  The rumored series 5000 gpus all are pointing to big jumps in bandwidth....

Edit 2

I do think, given Nintendo's style, the S2 has a good chance at standardizing 1080p/60 fps.  Which would be amazing.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 10 May 2024

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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

C) ROG Ally runs pretty much all current gen games with slower LPDDR5 RAM. 

This is more bandwidth than a $700 ROG Ally (the higher end model).

D) This likely also indicates a GPU that requires that extra bandwidth. A ROG Ally crushes a PS4 by being able to run many games a PS4 couldn't dream of running, so it should be asked why Nintendo needs even more bandwidth than a ROG Ally. Well it probably points to a Tegra T239 that is fairly performant. If Nintendo just wanted PS4 tier performance, you don't need LPDDR5X for that, not with even a 2022 era chip. 

I feel like you are fighting arguments nobody is making.  Nobody is saying it can't run current games.  It will, similar to Rog.  720p, low settings at 30 to 45 fps.  If people are happy with that for third party, all good here.  

Crushes the ps4 is likely an exaggeration, but not worth fighting.  Better than a ps4, sure.

The S2 will be between the ps4 and series s.....  like I said 12 months ago.

Day 1 here.  Shit like LM4, pikmin 5 and zelda are going to look great.  Huge jump over the current Switch. 

A ROG Ally can do better than that. 

It runs Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart (a game yourself have cited as a showcase example of a game well beyond a PS4) at Medium settings and at near 60 fps and at high settings at a still respectable 30-40 fps. If the ROG Ally had DLSS the image quality would look considerably better too (it would look more like 1080p-1440p native) than what is shown here, but this is what even just lower performing LPDDR5 can do:

Objectively Nintendo fans should be very happy with a RAM choice that is significantly higher bandwidth than what this $700 system has and they should also factor in their silicon is going to have the advantage of DLSS which this AMD device unfortunately can't utilize for even better looking image quality than this. 

The Wii/Wii U/DS/3DS era this most certainly is not. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 10 May 2024

Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

I feel like you are fighting arguments nobody is making.  Nobody is saying it can't run current games.  It will, similar to Rog.  720p, low settings at 30 to 45 fps.  If people are happy with that for third party, all good here.  

Crushes the ps4 is likely an exaggeration, but not worth fighting.  Better than a ps4, sure.

The S2 will be between the ps4 and series s.....  like I said 12 months ago.

Day 1 here.  Shit like LM4, pikmin 5 and zelda are going to look great.  Huge jump over the current Switch. 

A ROG Ally can do better than that. 

It runs Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart (a game yourself have cited as a showcase example of a game well beyond a PS4) at Medium settings and at near 60 fps and at high settings at a still respectable 30-40 fps. If the ROG Ally had DLSS the image quality would look considerably better too (it would look more like 1080p-1440p native) than what is shown here, but this is what even just lower performing LPDDR5 can do:

Objectively Nintendo fans should be very happy with a RAM choice that is significantly higher bandwidth than what this $700 system has and they should also factor in their silicon is going to have the advantage of DLSS which this AMD device unfortunately can't utilize for even better looking image quality than this. 

The Wii/Wii U/DS/3DS era this most certainly is not. 

Rogallylife has the following settings at 30-45 fps, with performance a 3.5/5.0, when in turbo mode which kills your battery life:

To each their own, I would call that low settings and still low fps.  

Plus you have to note:

Rog Ally: 16 gb ram

S2: 12 gb ram

Rog Ally: 8.5 teraflops

S2: approx 4-5 teraflops



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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

A ROG Ally can do better than that. 

It runs Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart (a game yourself have cited as a showcase example of a game well beyond a PS4) at Medium settings and at near 60 fps and at high settings at a still respectable 30-40 fps. If the ROG Ally had DLSS the image quality would look considerably better too (it would look more like 1080p-1440p native) than what is shown here, but this is what even just lower performing LPDDR5 can do:

Objectively Nintendo fans should be very happy with a RAM choice that is significantly higher bandwidth than what this $700 system has and they should also factor in their silicon is going to have the advantage of DLSS which this AMD device unfortunately can't utilize for even better looking image quality than this. 

The Wii/Wii U/DS/3DS era this most certainly is not. 

Rogallylife has the following settings at 30-45 fps, with performance a 3.5/5.0, when in turbo mode which kills your battery life: