Oh no I only just noticed that the title says "suprise".

chakkra said: JWeinCom said: Palworld has pretty much exactly the same amount of players as it did when I made my initial post. So, my post is as valid now as it was then. Aged like fine wine. Meanwhile, Palworld has about 40% of the users it did when you posted. So, that one aged like milk.  For comparison's sake, Helldivers has about 72% of the users it did then, going by 24H peak. So, it's doing a much better job of holding onto players, which was my entire point.  Here's where they are now.  36. Palworld 37,813 58,860 2,101,867 42. HELLDIVERS™ 2 32,946 32,946 458,709 This is where they are as of right now. I imagine they'll fluctuate throughout the day, but the games by this point have a pretty similar player base overall. Which is pretty much what I said. Difference is that Palworld started with about 5 times as many users, so that is why it is fair to say that one fizzled out.  It's not really relevant, but yeah, there's a pretty good chance that Helldivers will have over 100K users and temporarily break into the top 10 when the update comes out. The question is whether or not it will actually keep those players engaged. I imagine it will do so far better than Palworld did.  Hold up, so an almost double daily peak is a "pretty similar player base overall" now? Okay.. And I'm really looking forward to see your update the next time Helldivers 2 makes it to the top 10.

28.		HELLDIVERS™ 2	52,088	52,088	458,709	+
29.		DayZ	40,822	51,694	73,418	+
30.		Hearts of Iron IV	46,472	47,646	78,108	+
31.		Monster Hunter: World	40,460	47,326	334,684	+
32.		Don't Starve Together	39,167	46,946	115,925	+
33.		Destiny 2	6,107	46,715	316,750	+
34.		Overwatch® 2	41,110	45,548	75,608	+
35.		FINAL FANTASY XIV Online	32,460	44,646	95,150	+
36.		tModLoader	40,026	43,097	47,602	+
37.		Spacewar	42,834	43,013	102,705	+
38.		The Sims™ 4	43,011	43,011	96,328	+
39.		Palworld	38,822	42,139	2,101,867	+

Had almost double the daily peak, and about a week later has less. Fizzle fizzle fizzle.

JWeinCom said: chakkra said: Hold up, so an almost double daily peak is a "pretty similar player base overall" now? Okay.. And I'm really looking forward to see your update the next time Helldivers 2 makes it to the top 10. 28. HELLDIVERS™ 2 52,088 52,088 458,709 + 29. DayZ 40,822 51,694 73,418 + 30. Hearts of Iron IV 46,472 47,646 78,108 + 31. Monster Hunter: World 40,460 47,326 334,684 + 32. Don't Starve Together 39,167 46,946 115,925 + 33. Destiny 2 6,107 46,715 316,750 + 34. Overwatch® 2 41,110 45,548 75,608 + 35. FINAL FANTASY XIV Online 32,460 44,646 95,150 + 36. tModLoader 40,026 43,097 47,602 + 37. Spacewar 42,834 43,013 102,705 + 38. The Sims™ 4 43,011 43,011 96,328 + 39. Palworld 38,822 42,139 2,101,867 + Had almost double the daily peak, and about a week later has less. Fizzle fizzle fizzle.

Again, let me know when HD2 makes it to the top 10 most played. If a fizzled out game could do it, then it shouldnt be much of problem for such a successful game.

Btw, this is how they were this morning (which is just a couple of days after HD2's "biggest update yet").

chakkra said: JWeinCom said: 28. HELLDIVERS™ 2 52,088 52,088 458,709 + 29. DayZ 40,822 51,694 73,418 + 30. Hearts of Iron IV 46,472 47,646 78,108 + 31. Monster Hunter: World 40,460 47,326 334,684 + 32. Don't Starve Together 39,167 46,946 115,925 + 33. Destiny 2 6,107 46,715 316,750 + 34. Overwatch® 2 41,110 45,548 75,608 + 35. FINAL FANTASY XIV Online 32,460 44,646 95,150 + 36. tModLoader 40,026 43,097 47,602 + 37. Spacewar 42,834 43,013 102,705 + 38. The Sims™ 4 43,011 43,011 96,328 + 39. Palworld 38,822 42,139 2,101,867 + Had almost double the daily peak, and about a week later has less. Fizzle fizzle fizzle. Again, let me know when HD2 makes it to the top 10 most played. If a fizzled out game could do it, then it shouldnt be much of problem for such a successful game. Btw, this is how they were this morning (which is just a couple of days after HD2's "biggest update yet").

XD. I see you have stopped sorting by 24H peak. When it no longer supports your point, I guess it's irrelevant.

It's always amusing when people get so turned around trying to move the goalposts that they wind up proving your point for you.

I acknowledged in literally my first response to you that Helldivers had fallen off. So, dunno why you're trying to prove something to me that I already agreed with. I did think it would likely crack the top 10 with the update, but that doesn't seem like it will happen. Apparently, players are not happy with some of the balance changes, which isn't exactly something I could have foreseen. But, those kinds of possibilities are precisely why I hedged my bet. Not sure if it would have made it if the update was better received. 

Either way, I'll just agree with you. Helldivers 2 is not "such a successful game", and has fizzled out. You have proven a point that I never disagreed with. So... congrats I guess?

But, if Helldivers 2 is not a successful game and has fizzled out, then what does that say about the game that has even fewer players? Palworld's peak was about five times higher than Helldivers, and it now has less players. So, if Helldivers fizzled out and is not successful, Palworld has fizzled out even harder, and is even less successful.

28.		HELLDIVERS™ 2	50,081	51,240	458,709	+
29.		Sid Meier's Civilization VI	49,625	66,451	162,657	+
30.		NARAKA: BLADEPOINT	46,824	261,939	385,770	+
31.		FINAL FANTASY XIV Online	44,361	44,361	95,150	+
32.		Hearts of Iron IV	43,854	53,549	78,108	+
33.		Governor of Poker 3	41,391	42,190	47,136	+
34.		The Sims™ 4	40,864	41,578	96,328	+
35.		Euro Truck Simulator 2	37,297	39,962	69,754	+
36.		Spacewar	37,203	42,978	102,705	+
37.		Farming Simulator 22	35,108	35,855	105,636	+
38.		Overwatch® 2	32,991	45,963	75,608	+
39.		Tapple	32,451	38,782	38,782	+
40.		VRChat	32,345	44,767	52,956	+
41.		Crosshair X	32,299	33,581	35,101	+
42.		Garry's Mod	31,963	33,006	73,863	+
43.		Project Zomboid	31,080	32,339	65,505	+
44.		Terraria	30,535	37,701	489,886	+
45.		tModLoader	30,226	43,207	47,602	+
46.		Valheim	29,687	29,725	502,387	+
47.		Fallout 4	29,652	29,814	472,962	+
48.		Red Dead Redemption 2	29,576	40,266	77,655	+
49.		ARK: Survival Evolved	29,210	38,621	248,405	+
50.		The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition	28,862	28,891	69,906	+
51.		No Man's Sky	28,119	28,674	212,613	+
52.		Cats	27,557	27,557	90,669	+
53.		Palworld	27,331	43,900	2,101,867

And just to get ahead of the goalpost moving, even if Palworld does get ahead of Helldivers at some point, which is distinctly possible, it doesn't really matter so long as it's own numbers aren't going up.

Ehh.. except I never said that Helldivers 2 had fizzled out or that it was not successful. I mean, it would be really stupid of me to say such a thing when the numbers are right there for everyone to see, as the game has obviously beeing able to maintain a player base on the same ballpark as many other games that are considered to be successful so, again, it would be foolish of me to go against the numbers.

I still think that Palworld has a slight edge over it, considering it has remained on the Steam top 100 selling games for 29 consecutive weeks, but yes, I think we can conclude that both games have been succesful (which I think should be obvious).

I'm pretty sure a logical interpretation of what you said is that Helldivers was not successful if it didn't reach the top 10. But, that's a semantic argument, so if that's not what you meant, we'll just agree that it was a misunderstanding. We can then move on to the latest place you've moved the goalposts to, which is the top 100 sales. I'd say player count is a much more relevant stat with these types of games, but hey, that doesn't support your argument, so just move those goalposts I guess. Still won't help.

First off, you said that Palworld has a slight edge because it's been in the top 100 for 29 CONSECUTIVE WEEKS. So, how long has Helldivers been in the top 100?

26	HELLDIVERS™ 2	$39.99	▲ 16	29

Oh... 29 consecutive weeks. 

So, major face palm right there. It's also in a significantly higher place. So... not sure how you're arguing that Palworld is a bigger success.

And, is being the 78th (80th now) best selling game on steam really such an accomplishment? It is interesting that in all other cases you chose to show a section of the chart, but here you only showed Palworld. So lets expand it and see what other games are selling at the same level right now. 

	Rank	Price	Change	Weeks
	71	Sekiro™: Shadows Die Twice - GOTY Edition	$59.99	New	1
	72	REMNANT II®	-50% $49.99 $24.99	New	1
	73	Sea of Thieves: 2024 Edition	$39.99	▼ 24	25
	74	Call of Duty®: Black Ops Cold War	-67% $59.99 $19.79	New	1
	75	World of Warships	Free To Play	New	1
	76	IdleOn - The Idle RPG	Free To Play	New	1
	77	EA SPORTS FC™ 24	$69.99	▼ 22	56
	78	HITMAN World of Assassination	-60% $69.99 $27.99	New	1
	79	Forza Horizon 5	$59.99	▲ 8	154
	80	Palworld	$29.99	▼ 3	29
	81	ICARUS	-50% $34.99 $17.49	New	1

Palworld is selling below Forza Horizon 5, a 3 year old game that was fairly popular, and above Icarus, a 3 year old game that I'm pretty sure most of us have never heard of, and didn't even have good reviews or anything. 

So, yeah, I don't think that's very impressive. But, when we're arguing about whether Palworld has fizzled out or not, the real question is how its sales have changed over time. Here's a convenient chart.

They launched the same week, with Palworld at number 1 and Helldivers at 72. Within a week, Helldivers was on top of the charts. Helldivers stayed in the top 10 for a month. In that month, Palworld dropped down to 70. It briefly picked up when it got the update, but then went right back down. Just as with the player count, Helldivers has been ahead in sales pretty much the entire time, aside from the month or so after Palworld's update. 

I mean... it's abundantly clear that Palworld's fall from its peak was exceptionally fast. I.e. it fizzled out. Your evidence to the contrary was that it briefly had a surge in players, but it has since lost all that it gained. One would think that once it lost the players it gained, you would just be like "whoops, guess that was just a temporary bump. Guess it did fizzle out." Instead you've moved the goalposts to increasingly random metrics to try and deny the obvious. It's kind of fascinating. 

Are you certain that you don´t have a region selected? Because it sure as hell is not showing up on my "Global" list.

16 now. Palworld at 85.

While I have my snipping tool out, here is a visualization of the player bases for Palworld and Helldivers

The line that starts really high, then goes down really quick is Palworld. Not sure how one can deny that its fall from popularity was quite rapid. 

As a small correction, they did not launch the same week. But, Helldivers preorders apparently started charting the week that Palworld was released. 

Huh.. that's.. interesting. Seems like Steam page doesn't update at the same time for everybody.

But anyways, I'll give you that one; it would be pointless to argue something where we don't have the same data.

As per your second point.. So I guess your whole argument is that Helldivers 2 had a smaller dropoff, therefore that makes it more successful because it was never that big to begin with?

But... It doesn't really matter if it updates at different times? I mean, the point was that they'd both been in the top 100 for the same length of time. The exact place it is at the moment is irrelevant. If you scrolled down further, you'd see Helldivers, or you can look at the weekly data which is static. If you did either of those very easy things, you'd see that Helldivers has indeed been on the list for 29 weeks as of now. It is not pointless to argue about it because we don't have the same data, it's just pointless for you to argue because it's an easily verifiable fact.

And no, I am not arguing Helldivers 2 is more successful. I'm arguing that its success is more surprising. Because... that's what the thread is about... 

Based on the "it's Pokemon with guns" thing, I would expect a lot of people check out Palworld, and then for it to lose the bulk of its playerbase, or fizzle out, quickly unless it was better than it appeared at first glance. Seeing as Palworld did about what I expected, Helldiver's success was more surprising.

You objected to that because you didn't think Palworld "started out strong and fizzled out quickly". So, what we were debating, as I have pointed out several times, is whether Palworld indeed did fizzle out quickly. That's where the difference between its peak and its current amount of users is relevant. Because, that's what fizzling out quickly means, losing a lot of players over a short period of time.

Helldivers 2 is not directly relevant to that point, as I pointed out several times, but since they launched around the same time and both started high on the charts, it is probably the best available comparison. When we compare them, we see that despite Palworld starting with about 5 times as many users, but by two months in, it had half as many players as Helldivers. And it stayed about half of what Helldivers 2 was doing until its update, where it briefly took a lead that it has already lost. Based on this, or just looking at the Palworld's user base or sales figures trends in isolation, it is pretty clear that Palworld fizzled out quickly.