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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - BioWare: Is the Wii Actually Gaming?

"If gaming is defined by story, then generally Wii may not be."

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Although, it's strange.  By those statements, he makes it seem like sports aren't themselves games.  They may not be video games but they're certainly games themselves. 



Words Of Wisdom said:

Although, it's strange.  By those statements, he makes it seem like sports aren't themselves games.  They may not be video games but they're certainly games themselves. 


Yes, this is what we've been saying for over 100 posts. It's an incredibly idiotic and narrow-minded statement. The majority of video games aren't story-driven, and the vast majority aren't to the extent that Bioware's games are, and he casually dismissed all of that as "not gaming."



Words Of Wisdom said:

Although, it's strange.  By those statements, he makes it seem like sports aren't themselves games.  They may not be video games but they're certainly games themselves. 


 Now you are seeing what we've all been debating against them for.   The guy made an absolutely asinine claim so of course we're going to rail on him for it.   But it goes well beyond just Wii because video games have been around for decades.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:

Although, it's strange. By those statements, he makes it seem like sports aren't themselves games. They may not be video games but they're certainly games themselves.


Now you are seeing what we've all been debating against them for. The guy made an absolutely asinine claim so of course we're going to rail on him for it. But it goes well beyond just Wii because video games have been around for decades.


Fair enough.  I should have just read the full interview more carefully from the start.  Thanks for being patient.  ^_^



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Words Of Wisdom said:

What games do you like then? Seriously, Bioware games have terrific gameplay. Neverwinter Nights is still alive today by the virtue of its multiplayer and *shock* gameplay. The UI design with quickslots was fantastic for its time and the radial menu is neat and has made an appearance in tons of games. Jade Empire was another great game. Heck, my single complaint with Jade Empire is that I wished there had be more battles because I really enjoyed the combat. In an RPG, too few battles is almost unheard of. I'm definitely looking forward to the PC version of Mass Effect and to their "it's done when it's done" original IP Dragon Age.

As for your complaints about Bioware focusing on graphics... WTF. Bioware certainly doesn't skimp on their games, but bleeding edge effects are certainly not what they're known for.

As for SSBB... that was a megahit before it was even released. Expecting that level of success with a new IP on an unfamiliar system would be insanity. SSBB could focus on control with an electrified potato and it would have still sold at least a million copies. SSBB could do whatever it liked.


I've heard good things about NWN but I haven't played it, but I HAVE played Mass Effect and BGII and both games had the aforementioned issues. I like games with streamlined interfaces, solid supporting AI and varied and clever gameplay, none of which I found in either of the two BioWare games I've played. After two strikes, is it a surprise I'm not rushing out to try another BioWare game?

Graphics tend to play heavily into "narrative" and the delivery of a storyline (at least they do in modern games with million+ dollar budgets), but like I said in my post, I don't think that's BioWare's real complaint.

As for SSBB, the fact that Nintendo DIDN'T force motion controls into it says that even they realize that traditional games with traditional controls aren't a bad thing. The interview makes it sound like the Wii somehow forces players to endure games with zero depth or story for the sake of innovation when nothing could be further from the truth.

But from the sound of the interview, it seems like these guys aren't even acknowledging games beyond Wii Sports. Has he heard of/played No More Heroes? Has he collected all of the scans in MP3?

I think what rubs me the wrong way about this is that it's clear he HASN'T taken a look at the Wii's library, coupled with the fact that he seems to think that a game must be inundated with dialogue in order to have a "narrative" (an act of snobbery if I've ever seen one).

It just reeks of the same dismissive attitude many devs have toward the Wii. 



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

Words Of Wisdom said:
Viper1 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:

Although, it's strange. By those statements, he makes it seem like sports aren't themselves games. They may not be video games but they're certainly games themselves.


Now you are seeing what we've all been debating against them for. The guy made an absolutely asinine claim so of course we're going to rail on him for it. But it goes well beyond just Wii because video games have been around for decades.


Fair enough.  I should have just read the full interview more carefully from the start.  Thanks for being patient.  ^_^


 You're welcome.  You debated with logic and reason and admitted fault when you saw the actual interview.  You made being patient with you easy.  Too many debate with insults, false logic, etc...you know, stuff that makes you want to have a cranial meeting with a brick wall.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Smash_Brother said:

I've heard good things about NWN but I haven't played it, but I HAVE played Mass Effect and BGII and both games had the aforementioned issues. I like games with streamlined interfaces, solid supporting AI and varied and clever gameplay, none of which I found in either of the two BioWare games I've played. After two strikes, is it a surprise I'm not rushing out to try another BioWare game?

Graphics tend to play heavily into "narrative" and the delivery of a storyline (at least they do in modern games with million+ dollar budgets), but like I said in my post, I don't think that's BioWare's real complaint.

As for SSBB, the fact that Nintendo DIDN'T force motion controls into it says that even they realize that traditional games with traditional controls aren't a bad thing. The interview makes it sound like the Wii somehow forces players to endure games with zero depth or story for the sake of innovation when nothing could be further from the truth.

But from the sound of the interview, it seems like these guys aren't even acknowledging games beyond Wii Sports. Has he heard of/played No More Heroes? Has he collected all of the scans in MP3?

I think what rubs me the wrong way about this is that it's clear he HASN'T taken a look at the Wii's library, coupled with the fact that he seems to think that a game must be inundated with dialogue in order to have a "narrative" (an act of snobbery if I've ever seen one).


NWN was great for multiplayer/customizability, but the single player wins no points with me.  It's the single worst aspect of the game unless you play it with someone else.

BGII I really liked a lot but it's dated today in a lot of ways.  The spellcaster AI was terrific though.  Enemy mage battles were fun.  Still, if you're looking for super advanced AI from a game almost 10 years old... I have to wonder if your expectations are a tad high.

I agree with the controls comment on SSBB.  Motion Controls are a tool that developers can use to make their games better, nothing more, nothing less.  Shoehorning them into games they don't fit will make the games worse.  Giving the developers more options though, is never a bad thing.

You may be right.  Greg may not have checked out the Wii's library to the extent you or I would like.  We don't know.  Then again, maybe he has and that's why he makes the comment on the lack of narrative games.  Again, we don't know. 



I actually hope to be playing NWN with my GF soon, as she's vouched for the game. As for BGII, it was really the lack of direction which hurt the game the most.

The interface was alright, but I actually wound up getting into a quest which trapped me and led to a battle I wasn't prepared for and could never have handled (which was irritating, since I had already saved).

I also couldn't shake the feeling that the game would've been infinitely better with multiplayer, hence why I expected multiplayer to be the saving-grace of NWN.

 

Words Of Wisdom said:

You may be right.  Greg may not have checked out the Wii's library to the extent you or I would like.  We don't know.  Then again, maybe he has and that's why he makes the comment on the lack of narrative games.  Again, we don't know. 


It just feels like he didn't do his homework before making the statement. That, or he should've specified that he was talking about gimmicky waggle games only. Otherwise, he winds up dismissing a lot of devs, games and hard work in a single sentence.



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

....yes it is.



My Games of 2011:

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Super Mario 3D Land

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception