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Forums - Politics Discussion - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

Chrkeller said:
zorg1000 said:

I don’t think you really understand the SC ruling on student loan forgiveness, it ruled that Missouri had standing to sue because its public loan servicer would lose revenue and goes against the major questions doctrine which states there needs to be Congressional authorization for programs of substantial economic significance, therefore, his administration doesn’t have the power to just wipe out student debt across the board.

Since then, Biden has been using & modifying existing programs to eliminate debt for people in certain categories like public-sector workers, people defrauded by for-profit colleges and people who have made payments for a certain amount of years along with fixing errors of past administrations where people were weren’t getting their debt forgiven when they should have.

You’re presenting it like the SC said canceling student debt of any kind is illegal and Biden said “Fuck You!” and is doing it anyway, it’s a lot more nuanced than that.

Again, we weren’t talking about messaging or people’s perceptions, we were talking about things the party actually accomplished. How can you look at that list and say Democrats don’t focus on the middle class? I don’t want some basic “it’s my opinion” answer, I want specifics and examples of how they are ignoring working class Americans and only focused on niche demographics.


Well now I’m going to turn “you don’t read well” back on you because I didn’t say age was the sole reason, I said age & INFLATION are his BIGGEST issues. You somehow skipped over half a list of two things and ignored that I said they are the biggest, not only issues he faces.

Inflation is a massive issue for many voters, I personally think Biden is unfairly blamed for it since many of our peer countries (Canada, UK, Australia, EU) have faced similar results in the aftermath of the pandemic, but the average person does not know or care about that. Prices were lower under Trump and have risen under Biden so therefore he is responsible in the eyes of many voters.

I don’t think there is a flaw in the argument, I think the answer is that many people have contradicting views, don’t pay attention to politics or some are simply dumb. We often see on ballot initiatives where people will vote overwhelmingly for things that the people they elect don’t support. That’s how things like marijuana legalization, abortion access & minimum wage increases have passed in many red states.

Like I said, Democratic Senators in swing states like Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania are all polling better than their Republican rivals while Biden is polling worse than Trump which shows that it’s not a “Democrats/liberals” are extreme issue, it’s that Biden himself is very unpopular.

I'm talking about messaging because I think that is the party's biggest flaw.

Briefing Room | The White House

Looking over what messages the White House is sending, there are very few on the first few pages I think the average person actually gives a shit about.  

I think if Biden focused messaging on policies and how it helps the average person, instead of placating niche demographics, I think his polling would improve.

Just my view on it.  I can't measure opinions.  If I could, I would.  

Inflation, sure, it is a sticking point..  but he is losing quite badly to a convicted felon who tried to take over the government....  that speaks volumes about how well Biden is connecting with the average person.  CLEARLY he isn't.  

Just to clear things up, you agree that Democrats are the party that supports the middle class, they just are bad at telling people about it? So you do believe the list I provided is in fact very pro-middle class?



I looked through the first two pages in your link and see:

Remarks by Jill Biden at summer nutrition event

Biden names new round of judicial nominees

Bill signed: National Plan to End Parkinson’s Act

Fact Sheet: Administration announces investment in 12 regional tech hubs, creating good paying jobs and driving economic opportunity and innovation

Remarks by Biden on extreme weather

Fact Sheet: Biden announces new actions to protect workers and communities from extreme weather

Building a thriving clean energy economy

Statements on extending overtime to millions of workers

Remarks by Jill Biden at Congressional Hispanic Caucus event-the entire speech is talking about investments in things like education, child care & creating jobs.

Statement from NSC director welcoming the Agreement with Panama to address irregular migration

A Proclamation on the 60th Anniversary of the Civil Rights Act

And then on page 3, it’s mostly speeches at campaign events where he says things like:

And here’s how we’re going to do it.  We’re going to stand up for the women of America.  (Applause.)  We’re going to restore Roe v. Wade as the law of the land.  (Applause.)  We’re going to stand up for the right to vote.  (Applause.)  And we’re going to stand up for Medicare and Social Security.  (Applause.)  And we’re going to fight for childcare, paid leave, and eldercare.  (Applause.) 

And we’re going to keep lowering the cost of prescription drugs, not just for seniors but for every single American.  (Applause.)  We’re going to keep protecting the Affordable Care Act — (applause) — which is why more than 40 million Americans have health insurance today that didn’t before.  (Applause)


We’re going to protect our children and get the weapons of war off our streets.  (Applause.)  We’re going to provide clean drinking water, affordable high-speed Internet, quality education for every child in America.  (Applause.)

We’re going to secure our border and protect legal immigration.  (Applause.)

And unlike the other guy, we’re going to stand up to dictators like Putin, because — (applause) — America bows to no one — no one — no one ever.  (Applause.)

Folks — and we’re going to keep dealing with the climate crisis.


What world are we living in where this stuff doesn’t count as focusing on the middle class?

You keep saying they focus on niche demographics but what are your examples of niche demographics? Is it black people? Hispanics? Asians? Muslims? Jews? Immigrants? Refugees? Women? LGBT people? Poor people? The elderly? Young people? College educated people? Veterans? Disabled people? People with mental health issues? Families?

I think the issue isn’t that Democrats focus on niche demographics but that they are a big tent party that focuses on everyone regardless of age, race, religion, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, income status, education level, etc. while Republicans just use basic scare tactics about dangerous “others” that are hurting “American values” and “stealing your hard earned tax dollars”.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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RolStoppable said:
only777 said:

Getting Biden out is no where near as simple as this.

Please read this piece by the BBC:

Can Biden be replaced as Democrat nominee?

in the future, I’d use a trusted information resource and not a comedy show for this sort of thing.

Looks pretty simple to me. All it takes is for Biden to say that he isn't healthy enough anymore, so he is withdrawing from the election. Given what was on TV last night, no sane person would doubt this reasoning. After all, this isn't just about being mentally capable enough to win the election in 2024, but also being trusted to be a competent president through the year 2028.

The concerns about elected delegates are overblown anyway. The whole system of primaries is known to be rigged (key term: super delegates), so who would be upset if the procedure isn't followed through for the purpose of a good cause. What's at stake here is if the USA continues to be a democracy.

I think you really need to read the BBC detailed breakdown because it really is not a simple thing at all.  I'll put it here:

Can Joe Biden withdraw?

The party's nominee will officially be chosen at the Democratic National Convention (DNC) in Chicago from 19-22 August.

The Democrats are planning to nominate Mr Biden and Vice-President Kamala Harris virtually before the gathering to comply with a ballot certification deadline in Ohio.

There, a candidate must win support from the majority of "delegates" - party officials who formally choose the nominee. Delegates are assigned to candidates proportionally based on the results of each state's primary election.

This year, Mr Biden won almost 99% of the nearly 4,000 delegates.

According to DNC rules, those delegates are "pledged" to support the incumbent president.

If Mr Biden willingly drops out, it could turn into a free-for-all.

Democrats would be left with an open convention where they would suggest potential nominees and continue voting until one receives the majority of delegate votes.

That could spark a frantic contest among Democrats vying for a shot at the nomination.

Could he be forced out?

If he doesn't want to go, this is where the process gets really tricky.

In the modern political era, a major national party has never tried a hostile takeover of the nomination.

However, DNC regulations do have some loopholes that could, in theory, make it possible to push Mr Biden out.

The rules allow delegates to "in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them", meaning they could look to someone else.

"It could be an incredibly ugly scenario," Ms Wright Rigueur said.

Experts told BBC News they doubt there would be a revolt among party delegates.

But the DNC can alter party rules at any point.

Ms Wright Rigueur pointed to 1968, when President Lyndon B Johnson decided not to run for re-election.

The party shifted from an open convention process, in which delegates could cast ballots for whomever they chose, to a bound process, where a delegate was attached to a candidate based on primary results.

"At any point in time, the rules committee can change the rules surrounding how you select a presidential nominee," she said.

"Nothing is outside of the realm of possibility," she added.

Even if Mr Biden were suddenly to exit the race, conservative groups have vowed to file lawsuits challenging the legality of any replacement Democrat's eligibility for the ballot.



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

My vote is for Trump, Biden doesnt even know what planet he is in



Lukas85 said:

My vote is for Trump, Biden doesnt even know what planet he is in

So, do you care about policy? 

Given how different the candidates are in terms of policy, it is difficult for me to understand how anything else could be the deciding factor for anyone who has any real policy opinions. 



Lukas85 said:

My vote is for Trump, Biden doesnt even know what planet he is in

This is precisely what @zorg1000 was highlighting before, people are more concerned with Biden being old than they are necessarily with his policies and current state of the democratic party

Polls are showing people want Michelle Obama over any other potential candidate (including Trump), yet she wants nothing to do with running

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4753294-michelle-obama-donald-trump-joe-biden-democrat-2024-hypothetical-matchup-survey/



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And who could blame her? She (Michelle) has zero political experience. She would do worse in a debate than Biden.

The best viable options are Chuck Schumer and Gavin Newsom. But, they don't want to back stab Joe.



What really gets me, is that the Dems are in panic mode, and the MAGA people are pounding their chest thinking it's game over for Joe. LOL



Here's a recent Facebook post from a MAGA friend of mine:



BFR said:

Here's a recent Facebook post from a MAGA friend of mine:

Crazy how people treat politics and the future of the country like a sports team. This aint Yankees vs Red Sox



Um it’s corrupt vs corrupt



BiON!@