By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

A common tactic when one side tries to pass a bill is to put forward a separate bill with the same stated objective that guts all of the meaningful parts of the bill. It isn't put forward because it is a solution to anything, it is put forward to serve as a smokescreen for a lack of support of the first bill and attempt to divide Congress. As such, typically these bills are voted along party lines for largely political reasons. It isn't a criticism of the bill itself (although often they will also be loaded with poison pills so sometimes it is), it is a criticism of the "Do nothing but keep up the appearance of doing something" tactic of government.



Around the Network
Chrkeller said:
zorg1000 said:

We aren’t? I already said earlier that the study in and of itself is fine, the two issues I have are:

1. Taking out various provisions about accountability & training requirements and replacing them with this commission. If they wanted to add this to the bill that would be fine, taking out the main parts of the bill however is not.

2. The way it’s worded in the summary sounds like victim blaming to me, why go with “study the conditions affecting black men” instead of “study the conditions causing police to use excessive force & racial profiling”.

As for the quote, you’re acting like this is a brand new issue that nobody has put any thought into and are coming up with knee jerk reactions. It’s a problem that has been going on for decades, you don’t think there have been countless studies over that time evaluating ways to remedy the issue?

More data is always good.  And people being afraid of data is a curious reaction.  I don't quite understand why someone would vote down data collection to further understanding.

So……you didn’t actually read what I said? Or are you intentionally ignoring my points? Or do you simply not understand them?

My argument has been pretty straight forward so I thought a millionaire scientist who previously told me I lack reading comprehension would have no problem understating it.

Seriously, which part of my post is so confusing to you? I have now twice said that the commission itself is not an issue and yet you continue to respond with “why are liberals afraid of data”.

You talk about compromise but this is a prime example of why that is so difficult, you are straight up ignoring every single point I’ve made and just repeating the same line as if it’s a “gotcha” moment.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Trump has said that Taiwan needs to pay the United States for its military assistance. Does this mean he will let the Chinese take Taiwan if they try? This is important bc Taiwan controls a large portion of the worlds computer chip market.  If they lost sovereignty through an invasion, then the Chinese would jack up the prices for these chips and have the world in its hand.  

Last edited by shavenferret - on 20 July 2024

sundin13 said:

A common tactic when one side tries to pass a bill is to put forward a separate bill with the same stated objective that guts all of the meaningful parts of the bill. It isn't put forward because it is a solution to anything, it is put forward to serve as a smokescreen for a lack of support of the first bill and attempt to divide Congress. As such, typically these bills are voted along party lines for largely political reasons. It isn't a criticism of the bill itself (although often they will also be loaded with poison pills so sometimes it is), it is a criticism of the "Do nothing but keep up the appearance of doing something" tactic of government.

This. This is what politics are, a bunch of posturing, making it seem like you are compromising while giving up nothing and expecting the world. Whether Democrat or Republican, Left or Right, Social or Fiscal. Each side makes itself seem like the reasonable one willing to compromise and address problems while doing nothing at all.

Sometimes this is relatively reasonable, believing that there are different ways to address the problem and thinking it would exacerbate things, but most of the time it is merely because you disagree with it not from any actual base point, but rather it wasn't your side's idea or it is perceived to infringe upon one of your sides ideas (even if it doesn't, getting reelected is more important than being right)



zorg1000 said:
Chrkeller said:

More data is always good.  And people being afraid of data is a curious reaction.  I don't quite understand why someone would vote down data collection to further understanding.

So……you didn’t actually read what I said? Or are you intentionally ignoring my points? Or do you simply not understand them?

My argument has been pretty straight forward so I thought a millionaire scientist who previously told me I lack reading comprehension would have no problem understating it.

Seriously, which part of my post is so confusing to you? I have now twice said that the commission itself is not an issue and yet you continue to respond with “why are liberals afraid of data”.

You talk about compromise but this is a prime example of why that is so difficult, you are straight up ignoring every single point I’ve made and just repeating the same line as if it’s a “gotcha” moment.

I understand perfectly.  Too bad you don't.  

There was a reason it was voted down.  But hey, whatever floats your boat.  



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Around the Network
Leynos said:

I’d say that the US is finally reaching Idiocracy levels, but Hulk Hogan is a bigger idiot than Camacho.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Chrkeller said:

Why are liberals afraid of the study?  Why does collecting meaningful data scare them?

Genuinely curious.  As a scientist collecting data and execution of robust science plans seems reasonable to me.  

Maybe liberals are just done wondering.

Chrkeller said:

I've wondered enough, literally and figuratively.  I've lived in multiple states and in multiple countries.  What seems good on paper isn't always true.

If people want more genuine data collecting, that's great. 

But it's not always done with the intent of collecting more data and following it up with good faith policy.  

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 19 July 2024

Chrkeller said:
zorg1000 said:

So……you didn’t actually read what I said? Or are you intentionally ignoring my points? Or do you simply not understand them?

My argument has been pretty straight forward so I thought a millionaire scientist who previously told me I lack reading comprehension would have no problem understating it.

Seriously, which part of my post is so confusing to you? I have now twice said that the commission itself is not an issue and yet you continue to respond with “why are liberals afraid of data”.

You talk about compromise but this is a prime example of why that is so difficult, you are straight up ignoring every single point I’ve made and just repeating the same line as if it’s a “gotcha” moment.

I understand perfectly. Too bad you don't.  

There was a reason it was voted down.  But hey, whatever floats your boat.  

Ok, so you understand my points, just ignoring them. Got it!

Yes, the bill was voted down, because it was insufficient and not a good faith counter but you probably still think it’s because I’m just a dumb liberal who’s scared of data.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

1



zorg1000 said:
Chrkeller said:

I understand perfectly. Too bad you don't.  

There was a reason it was voted down.  But hey, whatever floats your boat.  

Ok, so you understand my points, just ignoring them. Got it!

Yes, the bill was voted down, because it was insufficient and not a good faith counter but you probably still think it’s because I’m just a dumb liberal who’s scared of data.

I think many liberals, especially the elected ones, are scared of data.  We wouldn't want facts disrupting narratives.  

Call me crazy, but I'm with Einstien.  Granted I think most all scientists beleive in problem characterization with laser execution.

Either way I can save us both the time and watch CNN in the morning to get your opinion on the next topic.  

Edit

I'll close by pointing out that if liberals were half as smart as they think they are, they wouldn't be struggling to beat Trump....  again.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 19 July 2024

i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED