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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How will be Switch 2 performance wise?

 

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Soundwave said:

Companies like Apple and Google get good pricing on these components too, these parts of still reserved for those companies' higher end flagship products. Nintendo isn't moving some special number of hardware relative to those companies (nor is any video game maker). Things like LPDDR5X RAM, this kind of a GPU, a screen that large, a big chunk of UFS 3.1 storage are still not dirt cheap components.

1536 CUDA cores

8-inch 1080p screen

12GB LPDDR5X RAM

New dock w/fan (notable more because every system is going to require a dock in that case)

256GB UFS 3.1 storage

New magnetic locking Joycons. 

I dunno. I don't see it. All that for $50 more than an OLED Switch, great if they want to do it, I just doubt it. Nintendo has made pricier hardware choices here than they had to. Why a larger 1080p screen, 720p 7 inches was good enough. Why 1536 CUDA cores that's an awful lot of SMs if they want to low clock like a few people claim you could've used fewer CUDA cores and had a cheaper chip and still gotten the same performance by just clocking up a bit, why LPDDR5X RAM instead of cheaper, older LPDDR5 is also an eye raiser. Why 256GB UFS 3.1 when they could've used 2.2 UFS 3 is also a bit of a choice if your goal is cheap, cheap, cheap. They're making a lot of choices here I think based on giving the hardware a pretty decent amount of performance, like they could have opted for 128GB storage, but 256GB basically ensures every kind of modern game from 3rd parties can install directly onto every system's internal storage. 

The design choices here just don't scream "budget product!".

They purposely priced the Switch OLED at $350 which was already more than the XBox Series S and only $50 less than the disc less PS5. And the Switch OLED is selling great. So that kinda throws a wrench in the whole line of thinking IMO. The current best selling Switch 1 model is $350. The truth is, Nintendo's hardware is majority bought by adults with large disposable income, children are part of the equation but no longer the driving demo. Teenagers and young adults who have grown up with previous Nintendo consoles are the driver audience. The days of dirt cheap GBA/DS hardware and dirt cheap pricing are over. Maybe you'll get a cheap Switch 2 Lite eventually, but I don't think that's coming any time soon. 

Even the Switch when it launched was the same price as the PS4, and that certainly did not hinder its sales. 

256GB of UFS 3.1 literally is cheap storage... This won't be dropping until 2025 most likely remember... And UFS 4.0 exists... And UFS 5.0 is being developed.

It is better than the half duplex emmc, but still does not hold a candle to nVME... But remember, it is only 256GB, which is tiny.

RAM wise... People comparing this to Apple has to be some kind of sick joke, Apple has always been tight on RAM.. Most recently, with the 8GB RAM debacle on devices that cost thousands. Speed wise it is not using the latest and greatest LPDDR5X chips that run at high speeds... Let alone GDDR6 or GDDR6X.

LPDDR5X does not carry much of a premium over LPDDR5, Nintendo and all other console manufacturers also need to forward cost project component prices, case in point Microsoft had cheaper RAM with the Xbox One, but towards the end of the generation the costs were higher as RAM manufacturing had switched to commodity DDR4, supply and demand dictate RAM prices.

GPU wise nVidia has never made an RTX GPU for desktops or laptops that is that slow.

Tegra wise it is fairly mid-range.

Perspective.

As for chip size... Sometimes clocking higher makes a chip large as you need dark silicon to insulate parts of the chip from leakage or adjust/pipelines and caches or even decouple parts of a chip to drive higher clock's. This makes a chip larger.

This happened when nVidia went from Maxwell to Pascal.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:

But remember, it is only 256GB, which is tiny.

Why is it tiny?



Pemalite said:
Soundwave said:

Companies like Apple and Google get good pricing on these components too, these parts of still reserved for those companies' higher end flagship products. Nintendo isn't moving some special number of hardware relative to those companies (nor is any video game maker). Things like LPDDR5X RAM, this kind of a GPU, a screen that large, a big chunk of UFS 3.1 storage are still not dirt cheap components.

1536 CUDA cores

8-inch 1080p screen

12GB LPDDR5X RAM

New dock w/fan (notable more because every system is going to require a dock in that case)

256GB UFS 3.1 storage

New magnetic locking Joycons. 

I dunno. I don't see it. All that for $50 more than an OLED Switch, great if they want to do it, I just doubt it. Nintendo has made pricier hardware choices here than they had to. Why a larger 1080p screen, 720p 7 inches was good enough. Why 1536 CUDA cores that's an awful lot of SMs if they want to low clock like a few people claim you could've used fewer CUDA cores and had a cheaper chip and still gotten the same performance by just clocking up a bit, why LPDDR5X RAM instead of cheaper, older LPDDR5 is also an eye raiser. Why 256GB UFS 3.1 when they could've used 2.2 UFS 3 is also a bit of a choice if your goal is cheap, cheap, cheap. They're making a lot of choices here I think based on giving the hardware a pretty decent amount of performance, like they could have opted for 128GB storage, but 256GB basically ensures every kind of modern game from 3rd parties can install directly onto every system's internal storage. 

The design choices here just don't scream "budget product!".

They purposely priced the Switch OLED at $350 which was already more than the XBox Series S and only $50 less than the disc less PS5. And the Switch OLED is selling great. So that kinda throws a wrench in the whole line of thinking IMO. The current best selling Switch 1 model is $350. The truth is, Nintendo's hardware is majority bought by adults with large disposable income, children are part of the equation but no longer the driving demo. Teenagers and young adults who have grown up with previous Nintendo consoles are the driver audience. The days of dirt cheap GBA/DS hardware and dirt cheap pricing are over. Maybe you'll get a cheap Switch 2 Lite eventually, but I don't think that's coming any time soon. 

Even the Switch when it launched was the same price as the PS4, and that certainly did not hinder its sales. 

256GB of UFS 3.1 literally is cheap storage... This won't be dropping until 2025 most likely remember... And UFS 4.0 exists... And UFS 5.0 is being developed.

It is better than the half duplex emmc, but still does not hold a candle to nVME... But remember, it is only 256GB, which is tiny.

RAM wise... People comparing this to Apple has to be some kind of sick joke, Apple has always been tight on RAM.. Most recently, with the 8GB RAM debacle on devices that cost thousands. Speed wise it is not using the latest and greatest LPDDR5X chips that run at high speeds... Let alone GDDR6 or GDDR6X.

LPDDR5X does not carry much of a premium over LPDDR5, Nintendo and all other console manufacturers also need to forward cost project component prices, case in point Microsoft had cheaper RAM with the Xbox One, but towards the end of the generation the costs were higher as RAM manufacturing had switched to commodity DDR4, supply and demand dictate RAM prices.

GPU wise nVidia has never made an RTX GPU for desktops or laptops that is that slow.

Tegra wise it is fairly mid-range.

Perspective.

As for chip size... Sometimes clocking higher makes a chip large as you need dark silicon to insulate parts of the chip from leakage or adjust/pipelines and caches or even decouple parts of a chip to drive higher clock's. This makes a chip larger.

This happened when nVidia went from Maxwell to Pascal.

You do realize like this has to be sold at $400-$450 at a profit, right? Please do list all of the products with 16GB LPDDR5X RAM that are sold for less than $700 right now. The Google Pixel Pro 8 (not Apple last time I checked) does have 12GB LPDDR5X + 256GB UFS 3.1 (same exact config as Switch 2) and that is $1050 USD. 

Like Nintendo is in the business of selling 100-150 million units, not selling $700 niche ROG Allys, right? 

For that price range, size considerations, battery considerations, and given that the market has spoken very clearly and they want a hybrid form factor, this level of tech is very acceptable. 

Perspective. 

People thinking that like Nintendo is just holding everything back and like a Sony could magically pull something 3-5x better in this market space for that same cost are full of shit. This is not the DS/Wii/Game Boy/Wii U at all, Nintendo is offering fairly competent hardware here, it's too bad they are going to miss a holiday 2024 release date because likely software was running behind, but that's not the fault of the hardware. 

After Wii U and 3DS, launching thin is 2000% a non-option for Nintendo, they'll never do that again. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 21 May 2024

Tico said:
Pemalite said:

But remember, it is only 256GB, which is tiny.

Why is it tiny?

FF7 rebirth is 140 gb.  GTA6 will be over 100 gb.  Rift Apart is small at 40 gb.  256 gb isn't going to hold much.  But I'm assuming the S2 will have expandable memory.  



Currently, UFS storage is
produced only a little because there is only niche demand for high-end digital cameras.
It would be cheaper if it were mass-produced due to switch demand.



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Chrkeller said:
Tico said:

Why is it tiny?

FF7 rebirth is 140 gb.  GTA6 will be over 100 gb.  Rift Apart is small at 40 gb.  256 gb isn't going to hold much.  But I'm assuming the S2 will have expandable memory.  

Yes, but Switch 2 games like Switch One will be much smaller sizes. They are compressed. They got all of Witcher 3 with expansions on a 32B cart.  ToTK is 18GB. So Let's say Switch 2 does get a Rebirth port. Prob brought down enough to at least fit in a 64GB cart. Zelda Switch 2 probably be 25-30GB. Mario Odyssey is something like 5GB so not a stretch to guess Mario Switch 2 is something like 9-15GB.

ALso who the fuck uses internal storage on consoles for games? You people are nuts. Always store games on external storage. So much easier to deal with.

Last edited by Leynos - on 22 May 2024

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Yeah, Switch2 does not need large 4K textures because it renders 4K with AI upscaling instead of internal output.



Leynos said:
Chrkeller said:

FF7 rebirth is 140 gb.  GTA6 will be over 100 gb.  Rift Apart is small at 40 gb.  256 gb isn't going to hold much.  But I'm assuming the S2 will have expandable memory.  

Yes, but Switch 2 games like Switch One will be much smaller sizes. They are compressed. They got all of Witcher 3 with expansions on a 32B cart.  ToTK is 18GB. So Let's say Switch 2 does get a Rebirth port. Prob brought down enough to at least fit in a 64GB cart. Zelda Switch 2 probably be 25-30GB. Mario Odyssey is something like 5GB so not a stretch to guess Mario Switch 2 is something like 9-15GB.

ALso who the fuck uses internal storage on consoles for games? You people are nuts. Always store games on external storage. So much easier to deal with.

Certainly games can be compressed. But if the S2 is going to be ps4 to ps5 fidelity you are looking at 30 to 50 gb game sizes.  Go conservative at 30 gb on average.....  8.5 games will fit.

Ps5 has to be internal.  My PC is internal with automatic backups to a secondary drive.  And with a portable like the S2 I should put games on an external drive?  Not sure I follow.  

People seem defensive here.  Someone asked why 256 gb was small and the answer is because games sizes are large.  The average ps4 game was 40 gb...



Oneeee-Chan!!! said:

Yeah, Switch2 does not need large 4K textures because it renders 4K with AI upscaling instead of internal output.

Ps4 didn't render 4k....  average game was 40 gb.  If the S2 is going to be ps4+ graphics, game file sizes are going to be larger.   That is just a fact.

The big question, which we don't know the answer to, is will 3rd party pay for large game carts?  Or will they do what they did on the S2, require large sections of the game to be downloaded?

But the S2, likely, will have expandable storage, so this isn't a huge deal either way.

And it isn't like a portable can have massive storage anyway.  I have two 4 tb drives in my PC.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 22 May 2024

I never store games on my PS5 internal SSD. Just updates/screenshots/apps/save data. All games go to the external SSD. Also again Switch 2 will use cards so a lot of games will still be heavily compressed.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!