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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How will be Switch 2 performance wise?

 

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Chrkeller said:

I don't own a series s, but I would be shocked if games target 1440p.  I would guess it renders at 900p to 1080p, same as the switch.   Heck most ps5 games are 1440p rendered in performance mode.  Upscaling isn't new.  All consoles use it.  Upscaling has been a thing since the 360 and ps3.  

For some reason people seem to think consoles are wasting resources with native resolution at 1440p and 4k....  um Alan wake 2 on the ps5 is 1270p on quality mode and sub 1080p in performance mode.  Only PC renders native resolutions.  

Time will tell, but I think people are grossly underestimating memory bandwidth.  102 gbps max is rough.  Especially at higher than 30 fps.  

Key word is "targeting". Xbox is saying in their promo material Series S is designed to target 1440p, while we can be relatively confident that Switch 2 will be targeting 1080p. The comparison here is relative, Series S might only run at 1080p compared to its "target" of 1440p, but if that is the case, you can expect Switch 2 will run at 720p in the same situation since its targeting 1080p.

As for memory bandwidth, I don't think you seem to understand that a large part of the bandwidth argument comes down to the processing requirements. Switch 2 has about half the bandwidth, but it also has about half the tFlops, which means that relative to its processing power, the bandwidth is sufficient.

Whats more interesting imo is the post-processing improvements that Nvidia is promising. This can be seen with the leaks (admittedly taken with a grain of salt) that the Switch was able to run the Matrix demo quite well at a dev conference, which is interesting given the fact that functionally similar hardware testing by independent sources show that it shouldn't be able to run that demo basically at all...



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Can't remember if this has already been posted, if not, thought potentially quite interesting. Modder has got FSR3/frame gen working on older RTX cards. Could devs leverage this for Switch 2? I've read that frame gen is best used at 60fps+ to limit input lag but maybe could work on certain genres... (or indeed on games that do in fact target 60 on Switch 2)

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/fsr-3-mod-nvidia-dlss-frame-generation#:~:text=Counter%2DStrike%202-,This%20FSR%203%20mod%20is%20a%20game%20changer%20for%20older,it's%20not%20without%20its%20issues.



CheddarPlease said:
Chrkeller said:

I don't own a series s, but I would be shocked if games target 1440p.  I would guess it renders at 900p to 1080p, same as the switch.   Heck most ps5 games are 1440p rendered in performance mode.  Upscaling isn't new.  All consoles use it.  Upscaling has been a thing since the 360 and ps3.  

For some reason people seem to think consoles are wasting resources with native resolution at 1440p and 4k....  um Alan wake 2 on the ps5 is 1270p on quality mode and sub 1080p in performance mode.  Only PC renders native resolutions.  

Time will tell, but I think people are grossly underestimating memory bandwidth.  102 gbps max is rough.  Especially at higher than 30 fps.  

Key word is "targeting". Xbox is saying in their promo material Series S is designed to target 1440p, while we can be relatively confident that Switch 2 will be targeting 1080p. The comparison here is relative, Series S might only run at 1080p compared to its "target" of 1440p, but if that is the case, you can expect Switch 2 will run at 720p in the same situation since its targeting 1080p.

As for memory bandwidth, I don't think you seem to understand that a large part of the bandwidth argument comes down to the processing requirements. Switch 2 has about half the bandwidth, but it also has about half the tFlops, which means that relative to its processing power, the bandwidth is sufficient.

Whats more interesting imo is the post-processing improvements that Nvidia is promising. This can be seen with the leaks (admittedly taken with a grain of salt) that the Switch was able to run the Matrix demo quite well at a dev conference, which is interesting given the fact that functionally similar hardware testing by independent sources show that it shouldn't be able to run that demo basically at all...

I guess I don't see why marketing material matters.  The series s isn't targeting 1440p.  I googled a number of games and they are 1080p or less.... the series s and switch 2 will be targeting very similar resolutions, thus memory bandwidth matters.....  unless the switch is also targeting lower assets.  But hey, time will tell.  

Also tflops is a worthless measure.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 12 February 2024

i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Chrkeller said:

unless the switch is also targeting lower assets.

that's what I was suggesting?



CheddarPlease said:
Chrkeller said:

unless the switch is also targeting lower assets.

that's what I was suggesting?

No idea if I'm honest.  On one hand the S2 will mirror the series s in fidelity.  On the other it will be lower resolution and lower assets.  I guess somehow you feel both statements can be true?  

Doesn't really matter either way.  I mean people think upscaling is a S2 exclusive and a novel idea, despite being standard since the 360/ps3 era. 

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 13 February 2024

i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

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Chrkeller said:
CheddarPlease said:

that's what I was suggesting?

No idea if I'm honest.  On one hand the S2 will mirror the series s in fidelity.  On the other it will be lower resolution and lower assets.  I guess somehow you feel both statements can be true?  

Doesn't really matter either way.  I mean people think upscaling is a S2 exclusive and a novel idea, despite being standard since the 360/ps3 era. 

T239 will not match series s. Digital Foundry did a piece on it. It's more like steam deck but with dlss.

https://youtu.be/czUipNJ_Qqs?si=pogjsFuBKtVgh6Ie

Last edited by zeldaring - on 13 February 2024

zeldaring said:
Chrkeller said:

No idea if I'm honest.  On one hand the S2 will mirror the series s in fidelity.  On the other it will be lower resolution and lower assets.  I guess somehow you feel both statements can be true?  

Doesn't really matter either way.  I mean people think upscaling is a S2 exclusive and a novel idea, despite being standard since the 360/ps3 era. 

T239 will not match series s. Digital Foundry did a piece on it. It's more like steam deck but with dlss.

https://youtu.be/czUipNJ_Qqs?si=pogjsFuBKtVgh6Ie

From that test, they're running Cyberpunk 2077 with Playstation 5 (PS5, not PS4) equivalent settings and the 2050 was getting about 30 fps. It looks to me like if they used a dynamic version of DLSS Performance and Balanced combined (going into performance mode for more challenging scenes) they would get more of a locked 30. 

For Control, they state PS5/XSX run it at 1440p on low settings (yes, low) with medium ray traced reflections ... the 2050 was matching that with ray traced reflections at 1080p DLSS Balanced. 

It was also able to run one of the better looking next-gen exclusives in A Plague's Tale quite well (30 fps even with the rat swarm scene). 

None of these games have the benefit of being optimized by a dev team specifically for the 2050 hardware either like the PS5/XSX (and Switch 2) will have benefit of. Performance would be better if a dev team of 20-30 people sat down with the hardware and worked on a port just for that hardware for 3-6 months. Invariably you're going to get better performance when developers do that.  

That video is not I'd want to be sharing if your point is a 2050 isn't extremely capable as a chip. It was able to run several PS5-equivalent comparisons there and showed quite well for a low power chip with only 4GB RAM. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 13 February 2024

Soundwave said:
zeldaring said:

T239 will not match series s. Digital Foundry did a piece on it. It's more like steam deck but with dlss.

https://youtu.be/czUipNJ_Qqs?si=pogjsFuBKtVgh6Ie

From that test, they're running Cyberpunk 2077 with Playstation 5 (PS5, not PS4) equivalent settings and the 2050 was getting about 30 fps. It looks to me like if they used a dynamic version of DLSS Performance and Balanced combined (going into performance mode for more challenging scenes) they would get more of a locked 30. 

For Control, they state PS5/XSX run it at 1440p on low settings (yes, low) with medium ray traced reflections ... the 2050 was matching that with ray traced reflections at 1080p DLSS Balanced. 

It was also able to run one of the better looking next-gen exclusives in A Plague's Tale quite well (30 fps even with the rat swarm scene). 

None of these games have the benefit of being optimized by a dev team specifically for the 2050 hardware either like the PS5/XSX (and Switch 2) will have benefit of. Performance would be better if a dev team of 20-30 people sat down with the hardware and worked on a port just for that hardware for 3-6 months. Invariably you're going to get better performance when developers do that.  

That video is not I'd want to be sharing if your point is a 2050 isn't extremely capable as a chip. It was able to run several PS5-equivalent comparisons there and showed quite well for a low power chip with only 4GB RAM. 

Someone said it would be near serie s from that video obviously its not, and dlss is not magic and really depends on the game. Besides if you saw the dlc for cyber it had to run at 720p with upscaling to get 60fps games are only getting more demanding as we leave last gen consoles behind. 



Biggerboat1 said:

Can't remember if this has already been posted, if not, thought potentially quite interesting. Modder has got FSR3/frame gen working on older RTX cards. Could devs leverage this for Switch 2? I've read that frame gen is best used at 60fps+ to limit input lag but maybe could work on certain genres... (or indeed on games that do in fact target 60 on Switch 2)

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/fsr-3-mod-nvidia-dlss-frame-generation#:~:text=Counter%2DStrike%202-,This%20FSR%203%20mod%20is%20a%20game%20changer%20for%20older,it's%20not%20without%20its%20issues.

Probably doable, Nintendo even uses FSR on the current Switch, so using FSR3 in conjunction with DLSS even could be something they could do. 

I think it probably would only be useful in situations like where instead of going to 60 fps native, you do 40 fps and then let FSR3 frame gen the difference. At 40 fps it seems like you can get a playable bump in performance.  



zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

From that test, they're running Cyberpunk 2077 with Playstation 5 (PS5, not PS4) equivalent settings and the 2050 was getting about 30 fps. It looks to me like if they used a dynamic version of DLSS Performance and Balanced combined (going into performance mode for more challenging scenes) they would get more of a locked 30. 

For Control, they state PS5/XSX run it at 1440p on low settings (yes, low) with medium ray traced reflections ... the 2050 was matching that with ray traced reflections at 1080p DLSS Balanced. 

It was also able to run one of the better looking next-gen exclusives in A Plague's Tale quite well (30 fps even with the rat swarm scene). 

None of these games have the benefit of being optimized by a dev team specifically for the 2050 hardware either like the PS5/XSX (and Switch 2) will have benefit of. Performance would be better if a dev team of 20-30 people sat down with the hardware and worked on a port just for that hardware for 3-6 months. Invariably you're going to get better performance when developers do that.  

That video is not I'd want to be sharing if your point is a 2050 isn't extremely capable as a chip. It was able to run several PS5-equivalent comparisons there and showed quite well for a low power chip with only 4GB RAM. 

Someone said it would be near serie s from that video obviously its not, and dlss is not magic and really depends on the game. Besides if you saw the dlc for cyber it had to run at 720p with upscaling to get 60fps games are only getting more demanding as we leave last gen consoles behind. 

It's not running last gen settings though it was running the PS5 current gen settings that max out a PS5 and is able to run them at 1080p balanced DLSS. Which for a budget, low power chip with only 4GB of RAM is not bad at all.