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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How will be Switch 2 performance wise?

 

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zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

The Wii could get away with having low end hardware because they had a freaking revolution for a controller that rendered the hardware irrelevant. 

It's like saying "well my mom was a supermodel, so that means I get to be a supermodel too" ... yeah well hold the phone for a second there, first of all, are you even good looking? If the answer is actually you ended up just being average looking, well then no, you're not going to have the same career your parent did, sorry to break reality to you. 

They were able to get away with things with the Wii and DS that they cannot get away with in the current market, even as is, the Switch 2 will have to be a massive upgrade over the Switch 1, not just a little one, otherwise people are going to say "nah, don't need it", unless they have some kind of incredible game play innovation ... but as I said above that's hard to have. 

Those kinds of things, like the Wiimote, are R&D miracles that happen maybe once every 20-30 years if you're lucky, Nintendo hit it big twice on touch/motion controls, but as we saw with 3DS and Wii U, they weren't able to replicate that success because hardware gimmicks don't work linearly like that. Just because you did it once or even twice, there is no guarantee your third and fourth attempts will yield the same result. 

If Switch 2 is for 2024 what Switch 1 was for early 2017 (top end mobile chipset), that will be more than fine. If Nintendo put a shit chip in there for Switch 1 that was like 1/3 the speed, the system would have sold less than the 3DS IMO, a large part of the appeal is that it can play big, console style games along with other types of games together on one platform. 

Dude the switch sales started exploding in 2020 and when the hardware was already extremely dated even as mobile chipset . I don' see a huge part of the appeal is playing big consoles games as none of those have even cracked 5 million, i think the appeal was the hardware could actually do nintendo games justice on a handheld and can alos be played at home, if anything switch  really proves it's user base could care less about graphics as its still selling great while being extremely dated tech since 2020 and many have the big console games don't even come to switch.

This.  Nintendo software not being spit over two pieces of hardware makes the switch amazing.  I'm exclusively a home gamer and hated missing out on link between worlds, some FE games, ocarina 3d, etc.  I'm sure portable gamers hated missing out on skyward and galaxy.....  now all Nintendo software is on one piece of hardware, which is amazing.  

For the switch 2, Nintendo just needs to keep the software coming and it will be fine.  It doesn't need to be high end.  

Just my opinion, but with the switch Nintendo software has never been better.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 11 February 2024

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Soundwave said:
zeldaring said:

Dude the switch sales started exploding in 2020 and when the hardware was already extremely dated even as mobile chipset . I don' see a huge part of the appeal is playing big consoles games as none of those have even cracked 5 million, i think the appeal was the hardware could actually do nintendo games justice on a handheld and can alos be played at home, if anything switch  really proves it's user base could care less about graphics as its still selling great while being extremely dated tech since 2020.

Nintendo just has to hope another pandemic comes along right when they're releasing the next Animal Crossing. 

Fact is linear hardware upgrades have been hard for Nintendo, even SNES from NES was more of a pain in the ass than they bargained for I think, in the US a lot of people did the whole "well Super Mario World doesn't look much better than Mario 3" for a while and then they got into an unexpected mud fight with Sega which seemed dead to rights just a couple of years earlier. 

For a linear hardware upgrade to work (when you don't have a Wii or DS touch monopoly miracle) you basically have to upgrade the hardware very well. 

Because otherwise people will just go "wait ... what's so great about this? I already have a Switch". No hardware manufacturer in the history of this business has been able to do a linear hardware upgrade that was a mediocre hardware upgrade unless they had some miracle control gimmick. 

Which frankly I don't think Nintendo has. Switch 2 is just going to be a Switch 1 with a graphics upgrade. As such, the graphics upgrade has to be pretty substantial, it can't be half assed. 

T239 8nm is not half assed upgrade. it's gonna be a big substantial upgrade  to what we have on the switch, not to mention SSD and DLSS the jump will be bigger then ps4 to ps5. console players will be playing on hardware that's been more powerful then switch 2 for 4 years by the time it comes out. So what makes you think that graphics are gonna be why people buy switch 2 it's makes no sense, it's gonna be the games and a t239 will look amazing in handheld but even then switch 2 won't be coming with oled screen if Nintendo really wanted to impress people that should have one at launch but they are nickle and dimers when it come to hardware.



zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

Nintendo just has to hope another pandemic comes along right when they're releasing the next Animal Crossing. 

Fact is linear hardware upgrades have been hard for Nintendo, even SNES from NES was more of a pain in the ass than they bargained for I think, in the US a lot of people did the whole "well Super Mario World doesn't look much better than Mario 3" for a while and then they got into an unexpected mud fight with Sega which seemed dead to rights just a couple of years earlier. 

For a linear hardware upgrade to work (when you don't have a Wii or DS touch monopoly miracle) you basically have to upgrade the hardware very well. 

Because otherwise people will just go "wait ... what's so great about this? I already have a Switch". No hardware manufacturer in the history of this business has been able to do a linear hardware upgrade that was a mediocre hardware upgrade unless they had some miracle control gimmick. 

Which frankly I don't think Nintendo has. Switch 2 is just going to be a Switch 1 with a graphics upgrade. As such, the graphics upgrade has to be pretty substantial, it can't be half assed. 

T239 8nm is not half assed upgrade. it's gonna be a big substantial upgrade  to what we have on the switch, not to mention SSD and DLSS the jump will be bigger then ps4 to ps5. console players will be playing on hardware that's been more powerful then switch 2 for 4 years by the time it comes out. So what makes you think that graphics are gonna be why people buy switch 2 it's makes no sense, it's gonna be the games and a t239 will look amazing in handheld but even then switch 2 won't be coming with oled screen if Nintendo really wanted to impress people that should have one at launch but they are nickle and dimers when it come to hardware.

T239 at 8nm has problems other than what it would be as an upgrade. 

It's a shit ton of graphics cores and a chip that's massive for no good reason. 

If Nintendo was interested in cost, they could have the same performance as that from 8SMs on 8nm and still be clocked very low, 12SMs is getting into comedy levels, you're getting a chip that you're basically getting very little use out of. 

Again it's like saying "well OK I'll go to the movies with you but I'm on a budget so I have to spend carefully". And then spending $5 extra to buy jumbo popcorn when you know you're only going to eat maybe 10% of that, why do that when a regular pop corn is cheaper and then the cookie on top of this is "well we did that to save money", like OK, this makes sense on what level exactly? 



Soundwave said:
zeldaring said:

T239 8nm is not half assed upgrade. it's gonna be a big substantial upgrade  to what we have on the switch, not to mention SSD and DLSS the jump will be bigger then ps4 to ps5. console players will be playing on hardware that's been more powerful then switch 2 for 4 years by the time it comes out. So what makes you think that graphics are gonna be why people buy switch 2 it's makes no sense, it's gonna be the games and a t239 will look amazing in handheld but even then switch 2 won't be coming with oled screen if Nintendo really wanted to impress people that should have one at launch but they are nickle and dimers when it come to hardware.

T239 at 8nm has problems other than what it would be as an upgrade. 

It's a shit ton of graphics cores and a chip that's massive for no good reason. 

If Nintendo was interested in cost, they could have the same performance as that from 8SMs and still be clocked very low, 12SMs is getting into comedy levels, you're getting a chip that you're basically getting very little use out of. 

Again it's like spending $5 extra to buy jumbo popcorn when you know you're only going to eat maybe 10% of that, why do that when a regular pop corn is cheaper and then the cookie on top of this is "well we did that to save money", like OK, this makes sense on what level exactly? 

We don't don't what kinda of deal they got we will just have to wait and see. 



zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

T239 at 8nm has problems other than what it would be as an upgrade. 

It's a shit ton of graphics cores and a chip that's massive for no good reason. 

If Nintendo was interested in cost, they could have the same performance as that from 8SMs and still be clocked very low, 12SMs is getting into comedy levels, you're getting a chip that you're basically getting very little use out of. 

Again it's like spending $5 extra to buy jumbo popcorn when you know you're only going to eat maybe 10% of that, why do that when a regular pop corn is cheaper and then the cookie on top of this is "well we did that to save money", like OK, this makes sense on what level exactly? 

We don't don't what kinda of deal they got we will just have to wait and see. 

They got some magic "you get 50% more graphics cores for less money" deal? Maybe Samsung will also give them a pony that flies with those chips while they're at it. 

There's other problems outside of that too, 8nm Samsung looks like a dead end process, meaning they're not likely to be able to do things like the Mariko and Lite revision the Switch 1 had ... that's conservatively probably 20-25 million of the Switch's userbase just from those two upgrades due to die shrink improvements, to not be able to die shrink would be a massive blow to Nintendo. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 11 February 2024

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zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

Furukawa was president of Nintendo back in 2005? I must have missed that. Their management is completely different, their market position is also different, their market needs are also different. In 2017 they released a portable with one of the most powerful portable chipsets available at the time (top 3).

Sorry i'm not seeing this huge difference. they got the switch chipset cause by reports they got a amazing deal and the chipset was basically  useless to nvda, and cause the wiiu died prematurely. The fact that Nintendo never released a pro in all this time tells me they have not changed. switch has been super out dated for mobile  hardware since 2020.

Don't think you should assume a lack of pro was due to Nintendo not caring about upgrading hardware. They have certainly done it before with New 3DS for example. The lack of pro could very well be due to the covid lock downs, the lock downs that Sony and MS suffered from. Why would Nintendo want to face those same issues?



Phenomajp13 said:
zeldaring said:

Sorry i'm not seeing this huge difference. they got the switch chipset cause by reports they got a amazing deal and the chipset was basically  useless to nvda, and cause the wiiu died prematurely. The fact that Nintendo never released a pro in all this time tells me they have not changed. switch has been super out dated for mobile  hardware since 2020.

Don't think you should assume a lack of pro was due to Nintendo not caring about upgrading hardware. They have certainly done it before with New 3DS for example. The lack of pro could very well be due to the covid lock downs, the lock downs that Sony and MS suffered from. Why would Nintendo want to face those same issues?

They would not suffer those issues  cause this is not a new system launch and the pro would probably sell to  20% of the audience that want better graphics like the ps4 pro. Meaning at best 5-7 million a year. they would not suffer shortages.



zeldaring said:
Phenomajp13 said:

Don't think you should assume a lack of pro was due to Nintendo not caring about upgrading hardware. They have certainly done it before with New 3DS for example. The lack of pro could very well be due to the covid lock downs, the lock downs that Sony and MS suffered from. Why would Nintendo want to face those same issues?

They would not suffer those issues  cause this is not a new system launch and the pro would probably sell to  20% of the audience that want better graphics like the ps4 pro. Meaning at best 5-7 million a year. they would not suffer shortages.

Pretty sure Oled has done far better than that and has completely dominated Switch shipments since its release. PS4 Pro never did what Oled has done. A stationary console just doesn't have as much to upgrade making them harder to sale. A portable platform like Switch can have a very attractive upgrade such as power, screen, battery, etc. You are grossly underestimating how unattractive to Nintendo it is to get in the middle of all the lockdowns. Nintendo literally upgraded 3DS and you are doubting they wouldn't have done the same for Switch? Didn't they upgrade DS as well? Ps4 Pro isn't in ant way comparable to Oled, Oled was far more successful.

Edit: Thanks to @pierre485 at installbase forum. Oled definitely sales better than 5 to 7 million a year. It has sold about 24 million in two years. All without the Switch's peak year (2020) and coming at the end of the pandemic lockdowns. Now imagine if it was 399.99 with everything Oled has and a power boost.

Last edited by Phenomajp13 - on 11 February 2024

Phenomajp13 said:
zeldaring said:

They would not suffer those issues  cause this is not a new system launch and the pro would probably sell to  20% of the audience that want better graphics like the ps4 pro. Meaning at best 5-7 million a year. they would not suffer shortages.

Pretty sure Oled has done far better than that and has completely dominated Switch shipments since its release. PS4 Pro never did what Oled has done. A stationary console just doesn't have as much to upgrade making them harder to sale. A portable platform like Switch can have a very attractive upgrade such as power, screen, battery, etc. You are grossly underestimating how unattractive to Nintendo it is to get in the middle of all the lockdowns. Nintendo literally upgraded 3DS and you are doubting they wouldn't have done the same for Switch? Didn't they upgrade DS as well? Ps4 Pro isn't in ant way comparable to Oled, Oled was far more successful.

Edit: Thanks to @pierre485 at installbase forum. Oled definitely sales better than 5 to 7 million a year. It has sold about 24 million in two years. All without the Switch's peak year (2020) and coming at the end of the pandemic lockdowns. Now imagine if it was 399.99 with everything Oled has and a power boost.

It really depends and 24 million is impressive but hardly a huge problem to manufacture. At 399$ it might have sold less who knows. It probably would have been 449$ if it came out in 2022 considering the how much better it would have been then steamdeck.l which was 399$.



zeldaring said:

It really depends and 24 million is impressive but hardly a huge problem to manufacture. At 399$ it might have sold less who knows. It probably would have been 449$ if it came out in 2022 considering the how much better it would have been then steamdeck.l which was 399$.

Regardless of what either of us think, all I'm saying is that there is a possibility Nintendo didn't opt to release a pro because certain circumstances just didn't permit it. I do expect Switch 2 to get a pro revision because that's likely what it will need to even challenge the original launch aligned.