The better rumor is that Switch 2 will have hall effect joycons. About time the industry catches up with SEGA 1996.
The better rumor is that Switch 2 will have hall effect joycons. About time the industry catches up with SEGA 1996.
Chrkeller said: I have enjoyed the "Switch 2 will run with current consoles if we ignore all the differences" argument Sound is pushing. Makes me laugh. |
Why do you have such a vested interest that the Switch 2 not have any next gen games?
The Switch itself was not that far below an XBox One as proof it can run several of the biggest XB1/PS4 games can't it? Like Witcher 3 does exist. DOOM does exist. DOOM Eternal does exist. Wolfenstein does exist. Alien Isolation does exist. Fortnite exists. Overwatch exists. Mortal Kombat X exists. FIFA/FC with Frostbite Engine now exists. These aren't fringe hypotheticals, these are some of the biggest PS4 games of that generation, they run on the Switch. Sure the image quality is not the greatest, but they are essentially the same game otherwise.
Of course you are going to have to make some sacrifices, but DLSS IS a fairly significant difference, and bullshit for people trying to weasel their way into saying it makes no difference. Bullshit when you have video proof of games look perfectly playable running at 1/9th of the resolution.
Switch 2 IMO has to be a full generation leap over the Switch 1, the only times Nintendo has not done a full generation leap are the two times it had an absolute industry revolutionizing hardware aspect to lean on (the Wiimote and the hybrid concept) ... now unless they're pulling like photo real, cheap, lightweight VR out of their asshole I don't think they have that for Switch 2. It's going to have to be a more standard hardware transition, which is fine, Nintendo has done that before even with handhelds but they've always been otherwise a full generation leap in hardware capability over their predacessor. (GB-GBA-DS-3DS-Switch, yup).
They are going to need the full generation upgrade to excite people for the Zelda game that comes after Tears of the Kingdom, for the Mario game that comes after Odyssey. These games have set the bar high, you need the generational leap in hardware to really top those games.
Some lame ass 3x improvement in power isn't going to cut it and wow people. If that's what they're doing then good fucking luck with that.
I'm tired of the "but dur hur Nintendo doesn't do this or that" ... you don't know what Furukawa's Nintendo does. Iwata's Nintendo was totally different from Yamauchi's in a lot of way. Why are we assuming Furukawa is going to be exactly the same as Iwata? Iwata would've cut the price of the Switch hardware probably twice by now and likely passed on releasing an OLED model for $350.
Last edited by Soundwave - on 09 September 2023Garrus said: DLSS2 is based on TAA, temporal accumulation is used to render each frame (several previous frames are combined to render the current one), so yeah, frame rate makes a huge differences to TAA and all it's derivatives FSR2 and DLSS2 |
There are two ways DLSS 2 circumvents the artifact issue that TAA doesn't, which in the end make it less dependent on prior frame deviations.
1. With TAA, there are heuristics hard coded into the algorithm. For example, there is a heuristic that the data used from previous frames shouldn't deviate too much from the current frame. If you have a low framerate, then the deviation is more likely to be too much, and the TAA solution won't be as effective. With DLSS 2, these heuristics are not hard-coded but determined in the training stage, many of them fixing the image beyond what a high-resolution target would even show. That's why DLSS 2 can give better image quality than a native image at the target resolution, whereas TAA could never do that.
2. DLSS 2.0, unlike DLSS 1.0 (and of course unlike TAA because it isn't based on an autoencoder), has a generalized model which isn't trained on a per game basis. The heuristics learned by the auto-encoder can be applied generally to all games. Again, this means that there is less dependency on prior frame's data, and much more dependency on generalized "learned patterns."
In the end, this makes frame-rate matter a lot less for DLSS 2.0 than TAA. The model's feature weights and training input are far more important than anything a run-time.
Soundwave said:
Why do you have such a vested interest that the Switch 2 not have any next gen games? The Switch itself was not that far below an XBox One as proof it can run several of the biggest XB1/PS4 games can't it? Like Witcher 3 does exist. DOOM does exist. DOOM Eternal does exist. Wolfenstein does exist. Alien Isolation does exist. Fortnite exists. Overwatch exists. Mortal Kombat X exists. FIFA/FC with Frostbite Engine now exists. These aren't fringe hypotheticals, these are some of the biggest PS4 games of that generation, they run on the Switch. Sure the image quality is not the greatest, but they are essentially the same game otherwise. Of course you are going to have to make some sacrifices, but DLSS IS a fairly significant difference, and bullshit for people trying to weasel their way into saying it makes no difference. Bullshit when you have video proof of games look perfectly playable running at 1/9th of the resolution. Switch 2 IMO has to be a full generation leap over the Switch 1, the only times Nintendo has not done a full generation leap are the two times it had an absolute industry revolutionizing hardware aspect to lean on (the Wiimote and the hybrid concept) ... now unless they're pulling like photo real, cheap, lightweight VR out of their asshole I don't think they have that for Switch 2. It's going to have to be a more standard hardware transition, which is fine, Nintendo has done that before even with handhelds but they've always been otherwise a full generation leap in hardware capability over their predacessor. (GB-GBA-DS-3DS-Switch, yup). They are going to need the full generation upgrade to excite people for the Zelda game that comes after Tears of the Kingdom, for the Mario game that comes after Odyssey. These games have set the bar high, you need the generational leap in hardware to really top those games. Some lame ass 3x improvement in power isn't going to cut it and wow people. If that's what they're doing then good fucking luck with that. I'm tired of the "but dur hur Nintendo doesn't do this or that" ... you don't know what Furukawa's Nintendo does. Iwata's Nintendo was totally different from Yamauchi's in a lot of way. Why are we assuming Furukawa is going to be exactly the same as Iwata? Iwata would've cut the price of the Switch hardware probably twice by now and likely passed on releasing an OLED model for $350. |
I've owned every Nintendo home console ever made. Nintendo is my favorite and I play the switch more than the ps5. I'm just realistic about what mobile hardware will actually do.
At the end of the day I've explained how you are wrong. So did ZeldaRing. And now Pemalite has as well.
Your call on if you are going to continue the fool show.
DLSS is a tool. It doesn't make weak hardware compete with high end. Performance is a balance of all hardware components. Ps5 has upscaling tools available. Switch 2 isn't matching the series s, much less series x and ps5.
End of story.
i7-13700k |
Vengeance 32 gb |
RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC |
Switch OLED
Chrkeller said:
I've owned every Nintendo home console ever made. Nintendo is my favorite and I play the switch more than the ps5. I'm just realistic about what mobile hardware will actually do. At the end of the day I've explained how you are wrong. So did ZeldaRing. And now Pemalite has as well. Your call on if you are going to continue the fool show. DLSS is a tool. It doesn't make weak hardware compete with high end. Performance is a balance of all hardware. Ps5 has upscaling tools available. Switch 2 isn't running with the series s, much less series x and ps5. End of story. |
You don't know shit, you're speculating like everyone else, so kindly get off your high horse.
DLSS does make significant performance gains, everyone has access to fucking Youtube, you understand that right? We can all access videos that show what DLSS does on top of many of us can use DLSS for ourselves, we can even see what DLSS looks like running from native resolution as low as 240p. It's not a secret for you to lord over people, everyone can see for themselves.
You have no sources in the industry either as far as I can tell, CVG does have sources and has a reliable history of reporting. This is what they're reporting. Matrix Awakens Demo on the Switch 2 using DLSS. Deal with it.
Last edited by Soundwave - on 09 September 2023Chrkeller said:
I've owned every Nintendo home console ever made. Nintendo is my favorite and I play the switch more than the ps5. I'm just realistic about what mobile hardware will actually do. At the end of the day I've explained how you are wrong. So did ZeldaRing. And now Pemalite has as well. Your call on if you are going to continue the fool show. DLSS is a tool. It doesn't make weak hardware compete with high end. Performance is a balance of all hardware. Ps5 has upscaling tools available. Switch 2 isn't running with the series s, much less series x and ps5. End of story. |
yup here is GOW using FSR 2.0 upscaling PS5 secret sauce confirmed. I don't really understand why people making this a big deal out of this when every single PC gamer says its doesn't look great upscaling from low resolutions. judging off youtube videos is useless.
zeldaring said:
yup here is GOW using FSR 2.0 upscaling PS5 secret sauce confirmed. I don't really understand why people making this a big deal out of this when every single PC gamer says its doesn't look great upscaling from low resolutions. judging off youtube videos is useless. |
What does FSR have to do with this topic at all? No one cares about FSR, it's not relevant to the Switch 2 or the Matrix Awakens demo on a Switch 2 or anything in the CVG article this thread is about, lol, give it a rest.
Garrus said: The 4060 Ti 16GB silicon die, also known as the laptop RTX 4070, can run at 35W. Personally I'd prefer a 4060 Ti 16GB GPU in a box for $300 for fall 2024 (at that point the 4060 Ti die is 2 years old and very cheap to manufacture). 35W-50W, a Wii successor with a normal controller but a powerful NVidia GPU in it. No more portables. Imagine that. Portables will always be so limited by power draw, they are disappointing. |
Switch2 during Docked would not be 10w.
It would not need to be limited to 15w and may not be.
Soundwave said:
What does FSR have to do with this topic at all? No one cares about FSR, it's not relevant to the Switch 2 or the Matrix Awakens demo on a Switch 2 or anything in the CVG article this thread is about, lol, give it a rest. |
I bring up FSR on a youtube video basically showing you can't judge off youtube video. until you actually play a low resolution upscaled game for hours you won't really understand why most people say it doesn't look good. now if you just want higher end games to run on switch 2 but they will have compromise.
zeldaring said:
I bring up FSR on a youtube video basically showing you can't judge off youtube video. until you actually play a low resolution upscaled game for hours you won't really understand why most people say it doesn't look good. now if you just want higher end games to run on switch 2 but they will have compromise. |
Make an FSR thread if you want to talk about FSR. This isn't a topic about FSR, it has nothing to do with The Matrix Awakens demo on a Switch 2 and has nothing to do with anything in the CVG article.
We can see what DLSS looks like there are a million examples of video on Youtube. You can see what DLSS looks like when upscaling from 240p. 360p. 480p. 720p. 1080p. It's been posted multiple times in this thread by several posters. Also like it's not like Nvidia cards are impossible for people to get. I have one in my laptop right now. I've played DLSS games. I can verify it looks basically the same as the Youtube videos.
Last edited by Soundwave - on 09 September 2023