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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Problem with "Switch 2" pricing

Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

Threshold based on price, battery and Nintendo being Nintendo.  

Not upper threshold based technology.

I would love to be wrong but it feels like people are getting excited and building expectations....  while forgetting this Nintendo.

Was the Switch just at par with the XBox 360 or below it? 393 GFLOPS docked (this is underclocked too) + more modern architecture was certainly a step beyond the XBox 360 which is rated at 250 GFLOPS.

So why is it so unbelievable to you that the Switch 2 would be something similar relative to the PS4 (better performance)? 

I mean if you want to play the "Nintendo's history!!!" card, every one of their portable successors has been clearly a full generation upgrade over the previous system. Yes or no? 

The DS wasn't just "sorta" better than the GBA ... it was clearly a full generation ahead (real 3D polygons, PSOne/N64 tier 3D not just well 3x better than the GBA). So was the GBA over the GB. So was 3DS over DS. Switch is clearly a full generation ahead of the 3DS and more. The Switch isn't "just barely an XBox 360 or PS3" either ... it's clearly better than both of those systems. It can run games like DOOM Eternal and Witcher 3 that the XBox 360 or PS3 wouldn't be able to. 

Yes Nintendo doesn't always go for cutting edge, but I think you're being overly dramatic here as well, if Nintendo operated the way you say they do, the Switch would be probably below the XBox 360, not a 1.5x improvement in teraflop performance. 

Because of price, form factor and battery life.  We have been through this many times previously.  We don't agree and time will tell.  



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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

Was the Switch just at par with the XBox 360 or below it? 393 GFLOPS docked (this is underclocked too) + more modern architecture was certainly a step beyond the XBox 360 which is rated at 250 GFLOPS.

So why is it so unbelievable to you that the Switch 2 would be something similar relative to the PS4 (better performance)? 

I mean if you want to play the "Nintendo's history!!!" card, every one of their portable successors has been clearly a full generation upgrade over the previous system. Yes or no? 

The DS wasn't just "sorta" better than the GBA ... it was clearly a full generation ahead (real 3D polygons, PSOne/N64 tier 3D not just well 3x better than the GBA). So was the GBA over the GB. So was 3DS over DS. Switch is clearly a full generation ahead of the 3DS and more. The Switch isn't "just barely an XBox 360 or PS3" either ... it's clearly better than both of those systems. It can run games like DOOM Eternal and Witcher 3 that the XBox 360 or PS3 wouldn't be able to. 

Yes Nintendo doesn't always go for cutting edge, but I think you're being overly dramatic here as well, if Nintendo operated the way you say they do, the Switch would be probably below the XBox 360, not a 1.5x improvement in teraflop performance. 

Because of price, form factor and battery life.  We have been through this many times previously.  We don't agree and time will tell.  

You've done no research on this issue though. Have you looked at the specs of the Tegra T239? You're just saying that on the basis of "Nintendo history", but you don't even know Nintendo's history that well either because if they operated the way you say they do, like the DS for example would be a rudimentary 3D system like the Atari Jaguar, not on par with the Playstation 1 at all when in fact it's better than the PS1 in many ways. 



Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

Because of price, form factor and battery life.  We have been through this many times previously.  We don't agree and time will tell.  

You've done no research on this issue though. Have you looked at the specs of the Tegra T239? You're just saying that on the basis of "Nintendo history", but you don't even know Nintendo's history that well either because if they operated the way you say they do, like the DS for example would be a rudimentary 3D system like the Atari Jaguar, not on par with the Playstation 1 at all when in fact it's better than the PS1 in many ways. 

We are both guessing.  You don't have insider information.  So just let it be. 

Side note, did the Pro that was definitely coming launch yet?



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Switch OLED

Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

You've done no research on this issue though. Have you looked at the specs of the Tegra T239? You're just saying that on the basis of "Nintendo history", but you don't even know Nintendo's history that well either because if they operated the way you say they do, like the DS for example would be a rudimentary 3D system like the Atari Jaguar, not on par with the Playstation 1 at all when in fact it's better than the PS1 in many ways. 

We are both guessing.  You don't have insider information.  So just let it be. 

Side note, did the Pro that was definitely coming launch yet?

Tegra T239 isn't a guess, it's in Nvidia's firmware leaks. 

Yes, the "Pro" Switch did launch. It's called the Switch OLED. There are no chipset improvements because Nvidia I would guess doesn't just give away free chip upgrades, they treat it as basically an entirely new chip and it cost a lot to do that. That's not for just Nintendo either, if you look at the Tegra X1 or Tegra Parker chips there isn't like a "custom version of Tegra X1 with totally different specs made for client XYZ", like for example there is a VR headset that uses the Tegra Parker ... but it's the stock, regular Parker, Nvidia doesn't give custom versions of the chip out (as in like "hey lets double the GPU cores for this client or add a different CPU). They did a die shrink on the Tegra X1 for the Switch Lite/Mariko models but that's just a die shrink not really a hardware improvement otherwise and that's all Nintendo could get from Nvidia. 

I think if Nintendo could have they would've done a DSi XL or New 3DS type hardware refresh on the OLED model, but Nvidia doesn't work that way so they settled basically just to have the OLED display and doubled the onboard flash storage. 



Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

We are both guessing.  You don't have insider information.  So just let it be. 

Side note, did the Pro that was definitely coming launch yet?

Tegra T239 isn't a guess, it's in Nvidia's firmware leaks. 

Yes, the "Pro" Switch did launch. It's called the Switch OLED. There are no chipset improvements because Nvidia I would guess doesn't just give away free chip upgrades, they treat it as basically an entirely new chip and it cost a lot to do that. That's not for just Nintendo either, if you look at the Tegra X1 or Tegra Parker chips there isn't like a "custom version of Tegra X1 with totally different specs made for client XYZ", like for example there is a VR headset that uses the Tegra Parker ... but it's the stock, regular Parker, Nvidia doesn't give custom versions of the chip out (as in like "hey lets double the GPU cores for this client or add a different CPU). 

I think if Nintendo could have they would've done a DSi XL or New 3DS type hardware refresh on the OLED model, but Nvidia doesn't work that way so they settled basically just to have the OLED display and doubled the onboard flash storage. 

Leaked isn't confirmed nor do we know if it will be under clocked.  Nor do we know about ram, etc.

The Pro never launched, period.  The leaks were fake, period.

We disagree, which is fine.  Let it be.



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Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

Tegra T239 isn't a guess, it's in Nvidia's firmware leaks. 

Yes, the "Pro" Switch did launch. It's called the Switch OLED. There are no chipset improvements because Nvidia I would guess doesn't just give away free chip upgrades, they treat it as basically an entirely new chip and it cost a lot to do that. That's not for just Nintendo either, if you look at the Tegra X1 or Tegra Parker chips there isn't like a "custom version of Tegra X1 with totally different specs made for client XYZ", like for example there is a VR headset that uses the Tegra Parker ... but it's the stock, regular Parker, Nvidia doesn't give custom versions of the chip out (as in like "hey lets double the GPU cores for this client or add a different CPU). 

I think if Nintendo could have they would've done a DSi XL or New 3DS type hardware refresh on the OLED model, but Nvidia doesn't work that way so they settled basically just to have the OLED display and doubled the onboard flash storage. 

Leaked isn't confirmed nor do we know if it will be under clocked.  Nor do we know about ram, etc.

The Pro never launched, period.  The leaks were fake, period.

We disagree, which is fine.  Let it be.

Maybe you could do like 2 minutes of research on the chip (Tegra T239), there's quite a bit known about it actually. 

The Pro is the OLED, the "leaks" were accurate in saying it would have an OLED display and they did get the exact screen size correct (if they guessed that by random happenstance then I guess they should go play the lottery too with that kind of luck), they just got confused with Switch 2 as well and assumed it was one product which is not an unreasonable mistake to make. Saying "all leaks are false forever and ever because of that" is just dumb in my view.

You also do understand that just because you "downclock" a chip doesn't mean you get it for a cheaper price, right? Like if the Tegra T239 is a 3 TFLOP chip and Nintendo decides to cripple it "because Nintendo!" to 1 TFLOP, they're still paying for the 3 TFLOP chip, that's not Nvidia's problem. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 31 August 2023

Soundwave said:
Chrkeller said:

Leaked isn't confirmed nor do we know if it will be under clocked.  Nor do we know about ram, etc.

The Pro never launched, period.  The leaks were fake, period.

We disagree, which is fine.  Let it be.

Maybe you could do like 2 minutes of research on the chip (Tegra T239), there's quite a bit known about it actually. 

The Pro is the OLED, the "leaks" were accurate in saying it would have an OLED display and they did get the exact screen size correct (if they guessed that by random happenstance then I guess they should go play the lottery too with that kind of luck), they just got confused with Switch 2 as well and assumed it was one product which is not an unreasonable mistake to make. Saying "all leaks are false forever and ever because of that" is just dumb in my view.

You also do understand that just because you "downclock" a chip doesn't mean you get it for a cheaper price, right? Like if the Tegra T239 is a 3 TFLOP chip and Nintendo decides to cripple it "because Nintendo!" to 1 TFLOP, they're still paying for the 3 TFLOP chip, that's not Nvidia's problem. 

I don't doubt the T239 exists.  I'm saying we don't know if Nintendo is going to use it.  Even if they do we don't know the version nor clock speeds.  We don't know, full stop.

People who insisted the pro was real are laughable for claiming the OLED counts as the pro.  Those who insisted the Pro was real were simply wrong, full stop.

One last question on my side.  With the switch did Nintendo reduce the clock speed of their chipset?  I'm looking for a simple yes or no.



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Chrkeller said:
Soundwave said:

Maybe you could do like 2 minutes of research on the chip (Tegra T239), there's quite a bit known about it actually. 

The Pro is the OLED, the "leaks" were accurate in saying it would have an OLED display and they did get the exact screen size correct (if they guessed that by random happenstance then I guess they should go play the lottery too with that kind of luck), they just got confused with Switch 2 as well and assumed it was one product which is not an unreasonable mistake to make. Saying "all leaks are false forever and ever because of that" is just dumb in my view.

You also do understand that just because you "downclock" a chip doesn't mean you get it for a cheaper price, right? Like if the Tegra T239 is a 3 TFLOP chip and Nintendo decides to cripple it "because Nintendo!" to 1 TFLOP, they're still paying for the 3 TFLOP chip, that's not Nvidia's problem. 

I don't doubt the T239 exists.  I'm saying we don't know if Nintendo is going to use it.  Even if they do we don't know the version nor clock speeds.  We don't know, full stop.

People who insisted the pro was real are laughable for claiming the OLED counts as the pro.  Those who insisted the Pro was real were simply wrong, full stop.

One last question on my side.  With the switch did Nintendo reduce the clock speed of their chipset?  I'm looking for a simple yes or no.

The Tegra X1 is downclocked but it's not as massively downclocked as you would make it seem (like some crippled chip). It is downclocked by everyone too, not just Nintendo, because it was manufactured on the 20nm process that didn't work well and resulted in a chip that ran hot. This is part and parcel WHY Nintendo probably got the Tegra X1, they got it for a great price because it was a chip that ran overly hot and didn't gain widespread acceptance as Nvidia was banking on (this chip was supposed to be in tons of tablets and even phones I believe, which never happened). 

The Tegra X1 in Nvidia's Shield console uses the Tegra X1 clocked at around the same as the Nintendo Switch. So it's not like Nintendo went out of their way to downclock the chip massively. The Switch version of the Tegra X1 actually has more RAM too (4GB vs 3GB). That doesn't really fit into the "Nintendo will just arbitrarily cripple a chip because they're Nintendo!" line of logic now does it? 

The OLED leaks were correct, right down to the screen size. Now, unless you are claiming they just randomly guessed that and got lucky that Nintendo happened to be using an OLED panel + the exact size of the panel (that's a whole lot of luck), you can say "well it's not what I would define as a Pro", but those leaks were indeed correct. The other thing that was a pretty good tell tale about a "Pro/OLED" not having a hardware upgrade is none of the "leakers" who were claiming that could point to an actual Nvidia chip that was tied to Nintendo in any way. The Tegra T239 is different, it's leaked by someone who has a proven track record of previous Nvidia chip leaks and actually has a firmware leak from Nvidia (not pulled out of some random's ass) that shows its graphics API is listed as "NVN2", NVN is the graphics API desigination Nvidia uses for the Nintendo Switch only. That's a lot more concrete stuff. 

You're not ever going to win an argument of "well all leaks are wrong" because there will be a Switch successor at some point, lol, so I don't even see the point of choosing that hill to die on. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 31 August 2023

VGC predictions are always hilarious, keep them coming.



Random_Matt said:

VGC predictions are always hilarious, keep them coming.

I agree.  Now if you excuse me I'm going to play Wind Waker HD on my switch pro.



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED