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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy XVI - State of Play

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Jpcc86 on 17 April 2023

I thought it looks good. Im liking character designs and world building. Looks like what I always thought a proper modern FF should look like. 
However I do have my reservations when it comes to the combat. I dont know what to make of it yet. Im not too crazy with was shown, but im not particularly hating it. will have to try it to make my mind about it. 



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Zkuq on 17 April 2023
Ka-pi96 said:
Mummelmann said:

I almost agree. My all-time favorite FF is actually FFXII, which was under the new Square Enix banner, but every other title since then has been a steady decline for me. OG Square was definitely better.

To be fair I haven't given FF12 a proper try. It released as I was making the switch from PS2 to Xbox. I was switching because my PS2 broke (again), so while a new FF game usually would've been a day 1 purchase for me, not having a working console to play it on changed that.

The MMO style combat does kind of put me off although I did buy it in a Steam sale a little while back, so it's on my to play list at some point.

I think you already got a similar answer, but here's my two cents as well: I'm not a fan of combat in MMORPGs (it just feels boring, at least for the first x hours, and I've never had the patience to get through all the boring combat), but I have no issue at all with FFXII's combat. I mean, there are times where it can feel a bit micromanagement-heavy, depending on your play style (apparently my original playthough on PS2 was bad in that regard, but I had no issue with micromanagement on PS4), but that's about it. It's very satisfying to see how your planned combat style plays out, you have to switch it up at times anyway, and overall, I think the level of manual involvement is quite good too. Your mileage might vary, but there's a real chance it'll feel different compared to MMORPGs even for your taste.



Hynad on 17 April 2023
Mummelmann said:
haxxiy said:

I mean... the 'series original gameplay' has been gone for over 20 years now, more than half of the time Final Fantasy has existed. It's not coming back.

From I to IX, a whole nine games, Final Fantasy followed the same-y copy of Dragon Quest's 1986 turn-based combat. By the end of the century, it was already irrevocably outdated and braindead compared to almost every other game in the market. So the surprise is that it lasted as long as it did, not that it changed in the end.

Even GameFreak, the least talented among all Nintendo's first and second parties by a country mile and targeting a constantly renewing children's audience with Pokémon, innovates more in gameplay terms than Square did in their classic years...

I wouldn't want the ancient gameplay of the 90s to come back, my main concern is that the strategic element has been killed entirely, or so it seems. Strategy and planning has always been a staple of the franchise, even after the first 9 installments. FFVII was the first one I played, which gives it a nostalgic place in my heart, but it was mechanically pretty weak. FFVIII was plain weird, I could never get into the "draw" system of the magic. FFIX was the peak of OG FF, in my opinion.

As I've mentioned, progress is okay, and necessary, but seeing this series turn into a full-fledged 3rd person action game just makes me kinda sad. Especially since the exploration and world-building looks amazing. I felt the same way when Mass Effect 2 and 3 dialed down the RPG elements in favor of action, and Skyrim doing away with so much depth was also a drag. But I understand why it's done; it helps make them more mainstream acceptable.

Between this, Atlas Fallen, Bleak Faith: Forsaken, Lies of P, Hell is Us, Wild Hearts, Exoprimal, Project Eve, Stellar Blade, Lords of the Fallen, Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty, Crimson Desert, Forspoken, Black Myth: Wu Kong, Dragon Age: Dreadwolf, and many, many more, it looks like Elden Ring and "spin, hack, glitz, fill bars and shine sim" are the main templates for 3rd person games right now. And it's a bit boring. It's the new battle royale. Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing games being made, and some immensely exciting titles on their way (I have at least 4-5 games on my watch list for this year that are more or less first day buys), but most of the attention seems to go to the blandest stuff following the same formula.

I agree with your point, I really do, but the alternative can't be what we're getting right now, there has to be more than two ways. Regardless, I haven't really enjoyed FF for about 15 years, so it doesn't make a world of difference in this one case.

Did you give FFVII Remake’s battle system a chance? To me, it’s the perfect compromise between both styles. I really wish this battle system would’ve become the new ATB, sticking to the series for a while where they’d iterate on it and polish it over the course of a few mainline titles…



G2ThaUNiT on 17 April 2023
Hynad said:
Mummelmann said:

I wouldn't want the ancient gameplay of the 90s to come back, my main concern is that the strategic element has been killed entirely, or so it seems. Strategy and planning has always been a staple of the franchise, even after the first 9 installments. FFVII was the first one I played, which gives it a nostalgic place in my heart, but it was mechanically pretty weak. FFVIII was plain weird, I could never get into the "draw" system of the magic. FFIX was the peak of OG FF, in my opinion.

As I've mentioned, progress is okay, and necessary, but seeing this series turn into a full-fledged 3rd person action game just makes me kinda sad. Especially since the exploration and world-building looks amazing. I felt the same way when Mass Effect 2 and 3 dialed down the RPG elements in favor of action, and Skyrim doing away with so much depth was also a drag. But I understand why it's done; it helps make them more mainstream acceptable.

Between this, Atlas Fallen, Bleak Faith: Forsaken, Lies of P, Hell is Us, Wild Hearts, Exoprimal, Project Eve, Stellar Blade, Lords of the Fallen, Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty, Crimson Desert, Forspoken, Black Myth: Wu Kong, Dragon Age: Dreadwolf, and many, many more, it looks like Elden Ring and "spin, hack, glitz, fill bars and shine sim" are the main templates for 3rd person games right now. And it's a bit boring. It's the new battle royale. Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing games being made, and some immensely exciting titles on their way (I have at least 4-5 games on my watch list for this year that are more or less first day buys), but most of the attention seems to go to the blandest stuff following the same formula.

I agree with your point, I really do, but the alternative can't be what we're getting right now, there has to be more than two ways. Regardless, I haven't really enjoyed FF for about 15 years, so it doesn't make a world of difference in this one case.

Did you give FFVII Remake’s battle system a chance? To me, it’s the perfect compromise between both styles. I really wish this battle system would’ve become the new ATB, sticking to the series for a while where they’d iterate on it and polish it over the course of a few mainline titles…

FFVII Remake's battle system was the biggest thing I loved about the game. Took a little bit of getting used to, but once you got it down, it quickly became one my favorite battle systems in all of gaming! If not my absolute favorite. 



outlawauron on 17 April 2023
haxxiy said:

I mean... the 'series original gameplay' has been gone for over 20 years now, more than half of the time Final Fantasy has existed. It's not coming back.

From I to IX, a whole nine games, Final Fantasy followed the same-y copy of Dragon Quest's 1986 turn-based combat. By the end of the century, it was already irrevocably outdated and braindead compared to almost every other game in the market. So the surprise is that it lasted as long as it did, not that it changed in the end.

Even GameFreak, the least talented among all Nintendo's first and second parties by a country mile and targeting a constantly renewing children's audience with Pokémon, innovates more in gameplay terms than Square did in their classic years...

I don't really think this is a very fair statement. FFI and FFII plays drastically differently. Whether or not you think FFII is a good idea, it's certained played differently lol. FFIII's introduction of the job system added depth and options that largely didn't existed in JRPGs of the era (and was greatly improved upon in FFV).  FFIV introduced the ATB system that became the foundation for dozens of JRPGs in the SNES+PS1 era (and even still today).

The technological limitations of the time were by far the greatest restriction to the what they did with the series.



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Ka-pi96 on 18 April 2023
haxxiy said:


From I to IX, a whole nine games, Final Fantasy followed the same-y copy of Dragon Quest's 1986 turn-based combat. By the end of the century, it was already irrevocably outdated and braindead compared to almost every other game in the market. So the surprise is that it lasted as long as it did, not that it changed in the end.

To call it "outdated and braindead" is just insulting. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it "braindead".



Mummelmann on 18 April 2023
Hynad said:
Mummelmann said:

I wouldn't want the ancient gameplay of the 90s to come back, my main concern is that the strategic element has been killed entirely, or so it seems. Strategy and planning has always been a staple of the franchise, even after the first 9 installments. FFVII was the first one I played, which gives it a nostalgic place in my heart, but it was mechanically pretty weak. FFVIII was plain weird, I could never get into the "draw" system of the magic. FFIX was the peak of OG FF, in my opinion.

As I've mentioned, progress is okay, and necessary, but seeing this series turn into a full-fledged 3rd person action game just makes me kinda sad. Especially since the exploration and world-building looks amazing. I felt the same way when Mass Effect 2 and 3 dialed down the RPG elements in favor of action, and Skyrim doing away with so much depth was also a drag. But I understand why it's done; it helps make them more mainstream acceptable.

Between this, Atlas Fallen, Bleak Faith: Forsaken, Lies of P, Hell is Us, Wild Hearts, Exoprimal, Project Eve, Stellar Blade, Lords of the Fallen, Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty, Crimson Desert, Forspoken, Black Myth: Wu Kong, Dragon Age: Dreadwolf, and many, many more, it looks like Elden Ring and "spin, hack, glitz, fill bars and shine sim" are the main templates for 3rd person games right now. And it's a bit boring. It's the new battle royale. Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing games being made, and some immensely exciting titles on their way (I have at least 4-5 games on my watch list for this year that are more or less first day buys), but most of the attention seems to go to the blandest stuff following the same formula.

I agree with your point, I really do, but the alternative can't be what we're getting right now, there has to be more than two ways. Regardless, I haven't really enjoyed FF for about 15 years, so it doesn't make a world of difference in this one case.

Did you give FFVII Remake’s battle system a chance? To me, it’s the perfect compromise between both styles. I really wish this battle system would’ve become the new ATB, sticking to the series for a while where they’d iterate on it and polish it over the course of a few mainline titles…

I did, it's a pretty good combat system. I liked the switching system; it's not unlike the older systems as far as control over the party goes. I also enjoyed the slow-down effect on using menus and choosing skills/spells/attacks. It feels much more grounded and meaty than what we're seeing in the latest game. I prefer strategic, turn-based combat myself, or hybrids (like modern CRPGs), or simply 1st person combat with lots of heft and feel to it (so not vanilla Skyrim).

That's what grinds my gears with most MMOs as well; I feel like I lose all immersion when I'm simply staring at the screen, watching my avatar making moves based on hotkey presses and waiting for cooldowns. I remember trying WoW, at the very start, I played it for a few weeks. Against weaker mobs, you could simply mark your opponent and watch your character do everything itself with no input.



Leynos on 18 April 2023
haxxiy said:

I mean... the 'series original gameplay' has been gone for over 20 years now, more than half of the time Final Fantasy has existed. It's not coming back.

From I to IX, a whole nine games, Final Fantasy followed the same-y copy of Dragon Quest's 1986 turn-based combat. By the end of the century, it was already irrevocably outdated and braindead compared to almost every other game in the market. So the surprise is that it lasted as long as it did, not that it changed in the end.

Even GameFreak, the least talented among all Nintendo's first and second parties by a country mile and targeting a constantly renewing children's audience with Pokémon, innovates more in gameplay terms than Square did in their classic years...

 ATB is not the same as Dragon Quest. Just because something has a similar presentation doesn't make a battle system identical. You may as well say DmC is the same as DMC5.



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