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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 11 US Congressmen ask Biden Admin to pressure Japan over allowing Sony to buy console exclusivity deals

EpicRandy on 30 March 2023
Qwark said:

The Japanese government would probably tell Biden to go kick some rocks if he would pressure Japan about this. The Japanese aren't really that into told what to do and on who to apply pressure. Also didn't Xbox also make many deals with third parties during the X360 era. Tales of Vesperia wasn't a X360 exclusive, because it was the platform it sells best on.

They would be right to do so base on logics but this is the us politics we are talking about. 

The US as often put tax on Canadian lumber because Canadian lumber were more prevalent and cheaper in the US as US lumber is in Canada. The US have done so for this very same issue like 5 times since the 80's each time imposing export tax on Canadian lumber and each time after years of court fighting Us duty were found to be improper each and every time.

Anyway I don't think this will amount to anything in the end but better for the Japan not to take this too lightly. Duty improperly imposed on Japanese's video game products is the last thing we want 

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 30 March 2023

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Qwark on 30 March 2023
EpicRandy said:
Qwark said:

The Japanese government would probably tell Biden to go kick some rocks if he would pressure Japan about this. The Japanese aren't really that into told what to do and on who to apply pressure. Also didn't Xbox also make many deals with third parties during the X360 era. Tales of Vesperia wasn't a X360 exclusive, because it was the platform it sells best on.

They would be right to do so base on logics but this is the us politics we are talking about. 

The US as often put tax on Canadian lumber because Canadian lumber were more prevalent and cheaper in the US as US lumber is in Canada. The US have done so for this very same issue like 5 times since the 80's each time imposing export tax on Canadian lumber and each time after years of court fighting Us duty were found to be improper each and every time.

Anyway I don't think this will amount to anything in the end but better for the Japan not to take this to lightly. Duty improperly imposed on Japanese's video game products is the last thing we want 

Given I am European I would rather see Japan not too cave if shit hits the fan. It would make PlayStation focus more on Japan and Europe which I wouldn't mind. Would suck for US gamers, but hey they can still buy an Xbox. The US also started a trade war with Europe, basically because the trade balance is in Europe is favour. This trade war has not yet ended.

Still I rather have my country having a trade war with US than being it's lil bitch. In general if you give Americans a finger they will try to take your whole hand, if you don't they will still try. Thing is they can only make decisions for you in your nation if you let them and nothing will stop them for still boycotting or adding extra taxes to PlayStation and Nintendo if it pleases them.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

EpicRandy on 30 March 2023
Qwark said:
EpicRandy said:

They would be right to do so base on logics but this is the us politics we are talking about. 

The US as often put tax on Canadian lumber because Canadian lumber were more prevalent and cheaper in the US as US lumber is in Canada. The US have done so for this very same issue like 5 times since the 80's each time imposing export tax on Canadian lumber and each time after years of court fighting Us duty were found to be improper each and every time.

Anyway I don't think this will amount to anything in the end but better for the Japan not to take this to lightly. Duty improperly imposed on Japanese's video game products is the last thing we want 

Given I am European I would rather see Japan not too cave if shit hits the fan. It would make PlayStation focus more on Japan and Europe which I wouldn't mind. Would suck for US gamers, but hey they can still buy an Xbox. The US also started a trade war with Europe, basically because the trade balance is in Europe is favour. This trade war has not yet ended.

Still I rather have my country having a trade war with US than being it's lil bitch. In general if you give Americans a finger they will try to take your whole hand, if you don't they will still try. Thing is they can only make decisions for you in your nation if you let them and nothing will stop them for still boycotting or adding extra taxes to PlayStation and Nintendo if it pleases them.

I'm Canadian so will not be impacted by this either and appreciate much that my country have been able to stand up to the US on similar issue but if you can nip those issues in the bud just do it. 

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 30 March 2023

Machiavellian on 30 March 2023
Qwark said:

The Japanese government would probably tell Biden to go kick some rocks if he would pressure Japan about this. The Japanese aren't really that into told what to do and on who to apply pressure. Also didn't Xbox also make many deals with third parties during the X360 era. Tales of Vesperia wasn't a X360 exclusive, because it was the platform it sells best on.

But they are not telling them what to do, they are asking them to look into it.  Its just as important for Japanese business to have good relationship in the US as for US business to have good relationships in their country.  So no, they would not just go tell the Biden Admin to go kick rocks.  You forget who trade more between the 2 countries.  Its a lot more complex then that.



Machiavellian on 30 March 2023
Qwark said:
EpicRandy said:

They would be right to do so base on logics but this is the us politics we are talking about. 

The US as often put tax on Canadian lumber because Canadian lumber were more prevalent and cheaper in the US as US lumber is in Canada. The US have done so for this very same issue like 5 times since the 80's each time imposing export tax on Canadian lumber and each time after years of court fighting Us duty were found to be improper each and every time.

Anyway I don't think this will amount to anything in the end but better for the Japan not to take this to lightly. Duty improperly imposed on Japanese's video game products is the last thing we want 

Given I am European I would rather see Japan not too cave if shit hits the fan. It would make PlayStation focus more on Japan and Europe which I wouldn't mind. Would suck for US gamers, but hey they can still buy an Xbox. The US also started a trade war with Europe, basically because the trade balance is in Europe is favour. This trade war has not yet ended.

Still I rather have my country having a trade war with US than being it's lil bitch. In general if you give Americans a finger they will try to take your whole hand, if you don't they will still try. Thing is they can only make decisions for you in your nation if you let them and nothing will stop them for still boycotting or adding extra taxes to PlayStation and Nintendo if it pleases them.

Yeah, i doubt it would work out like that.  Way to much money on the table.  It takes regulators nothing to look into Sony business practices and determine if they are getting close to anti trust issues.  As Epic stated, I doubt it goes anywhere but then again, its sole purpose could be to just put a spotlight on Sony, slow their roll or prepare some other strategy MS might be looking to accomplish in Japan.  Either way, I doubt it will benefit you at all.

As for any country you give them a finger they will take the whole hand, there are no saints in politics no matter what country you come from.  All seek an advantage over the other.



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Qwark on 30 March 2023
Machiavellian said:
Qwark said:

The Japanese government would probably tell Biden to go kick some rocks if he would pressure Japan about this. The Japanese aren't really that into told what to do and on who to apply pressure. Also didn't Xbox also make many deals with third parties during the X360 era. Tales of Vesperia wasn't a X360 exclusive, because it was the platform it sells best on.

But they are not telling them what to do, they are asking them to look into it.  Its just as important for Japanese business to have good relationship in the US as for US business to have good relationships in their country.  So no, they would not just go tell the Biden Admin to go kick rocks.  You forget who trade more between the 2 countries.  Its a lot more complex then that.

If the Biden administration will formally ask the Japanese government to meddle, it wouldn't be to just look into it, it would basically mean to take action against it. Either by forbid deals between PS and companies like Square or to protect the market less from US companies which can buy Japanese gaming companies with less scrutiny. US wants more monopolies after all, it's the Anglo-Saxon way after all to take on massive debts to eventually dominate and control. Sometimes it works (Big tech) sometimes it doesn't (US car industry).

USA imports almost twice as much from Japan as vice versa. Though the US is losing trading ground to China, when it comes to export. Putting on the same thing as US did with EU as a response might push Japan to more trade and a closer relationship with China as Trump definitely pushed EU closer to China, though China is pushing EU away in favour of Russia.

For the US I would say Japan is for many things more important than EU (especially for pressuring China). After all via Japan the US could very quickly react to a Taiwan invasion. So they can't take the same route of higher tarifs or boycotting products as they do/did with Chinese products and products from EU. So the question is how much control can the US have on Japan, keeping its many interests in Japan intact, which is unlike the situation with Canadian lumber and the EU tariff war.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

ConservagameR on 30 March 2023
EpicRandy said:
ConservagameR said:

PS was not headquartered in the US until 2016.

Yet MS now owns Zenimax and ABK. Everyone knows Sony complained about COD because of how much money they will lose and how that money lost, plus development and publishing profits will also be going to MS now.

So MS has way more FPS games than Sony already and also makes plenty of money from them.

Which other users? Are we talking about how Sony had argued their COD case or the merit behind it?

This statement goes along with the company values. You mean to say you think regulators won't be allowing the deal to pass due to Sony?

Headquartered yes, but Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC was in the US since 1993 and exactly to cater to the US market and help Sony in this task.

Yet MS now owns Zenimax and ABK.

Yes that's is a risk of relying on third party to fulfil some of your need, Sony took that risk willingly and benefited from this until the risk materialized into a tangible negative aspect.

Everyone knows Sony complained about COD because of how much money they will lose and how that money lost, plus development and publishing profits will also be going to MS now.

I would argue it is not the reason as Sony not set to loose those revenue with contractual agreement from MS for at the very least 10 years, Sony is much concern that MS will make Xbox GamePass such a success that it will shift the status quo in the console video game market and this may have a side effect of limiting Sony margin profits if they were forced to follow suit on things like day one game on PlayStation plus and/or day one pc release. If MS successfully shifted the status quo to a point where selling a console is not a necessity but only a part of their business Sony would find themselves in a situation where they are not the top player anymore and where they'll need to react quickly to great expense. To sum it up Sony doesn't want MS to be the Netflix of gaming where they would be the one playing catch up all of a sudden. 

So MS has way more FPS games than Sony already and also makes plenty of money from them.

Both statement are correct but only a result of business decisions from MS to focus on first party FPS and Sony to focus their efforts elsewhere. 

Which other users? Are we talking about how Sony had argued their COD case or the merit behind it?

No for the later for the first your question in response to RolStoppable was $120 Billion Sony is picking on $2 Trillion MS?

Wasn't this a rhetorical question to summarizing RolStoppable argument as being akin to victimizing Xbox from Sony? Cause the way I saw it he was using irony to show that your first point ("Should Sony and the Japanese government go after XB for having too much of a strangle hold on first person shooters for console?") doesn't apply.

This statement goes along with the company values.

How so? Are you implying that the statement of ABK regarding Sony's behavior's is somehow fueled by their bad work culture?

You mean to say you think regulators won't be allowing the deal to pass due to Sony?

No I meant ABK viewed Sony's action in regards to this deals as unfounded and hostile to them while enjoying a top position in the relevant market.

The task of becoming the leader in FPS titles? Consolidating that market? Was XB supposed to accomplish the same with Japanese titles?

Speaking of relying on third parties, why hasn't XB created (many) Japanese studios and titles if that's so important? It's been 20 years + trillions.

You're mostly agreeing with me here. Sony hasn't signed any agreement yet and it's not clear they will. At least not what's been offered so far. Sony is going to lose money because of this, sooner than later, and the market consolidation won't be better for everyone as this goes on. Sony doesn't want Netflix for gaming because then PS as we know it will cease to exist vs Game Pass eventually, with these costly acquisitions and rate of growth.

Then why does MS have a problem with Sony and it's Japanese strengths and then why can't Sony have a problem with MS FPS strengths in return? Because Sony money hats games? MS just used $80 billion to money hat Zenimax and ABK but they don't get just (timed) exclusivity, they get the entire company.

My point, as to the value of each company, along with the purchase value of ABK, shows it's ridiculous to think Sony can bully MS. Calling a bully names means nothing when he then punches you in the face and knocks a few teeth out. Sony ain't the bully.

ABK's word means something to you? I take it you also think they highly value their employee's and treat them like gold?

Last edited by ConservagameR - on 30 March 2023

Machiavellian on 30 March 2023
ConservagameR said:
RolStoppable said:

PS has had the highest share of FPS sales since about a decade. So yes, let the Xbox bullying commence.

You mean COD sales?

Last I checked, the profits for developing and publishing the game went to ABK, not Sony.

The regulators made it extremely clear that all MS seems to care about are those billions in (COD) profits.

MS also says they will be bringing it to even more platforms.

You know nothing you actually said is correct.  Was it not Sony who made the purchase about COD

Also, MS is bringing COD to more platforms including PS still so not sure what part you are missing.

The real point I wanted to make is your assumption that MS has a stranglehold on FPS but could you tell us which FPS game that MS has that has a stranglehold within the market.  Its not like Sony doesn't have a number of FPS in their stable as well.  



Machiavellian on 30 March 2023
Qwark said:
Machiavellian said:

But they are not telling them what to do, they are asking them to look into it.  Its just as important for Japanese business to have good relationship in the US as for US business to have good relationships in their country.  So no, they would not just go tell the Biden Admin to go kick rocks.  You forget who trade more between the 2 countries.  Its a lot more complex then that.

If the Biden administration will formally ask the Japanese government to meddle, it wouldn't be to just look into it, it would basically mean to take action against it. Either by forbid deals between PS and companies like Square or to protect the market less from US companies which can buy Japanese gaming companies with less scrutiny. US wants more monopolies after all, it's the Anglo-Saxon way after all to take on massive debts to eventually dominate and control. Sometimes it works (Big tech) sometimes it doesn't (US car industry).

USA imports almost twice as much from Japan as vice versa. Though the US is losing trading ground to China, when it comes to export. Putting on the same thing as US did with EU as a response might push Japan to more trade and a closer relationship with China as Trump definitely pushed EU closer to China, though China is pushing EU away in favour of Russia.

For the US I would say Japan is for many things more important than EU (especially for pressuring China). After all via Japan the US could very quickly react to a Taiwan invasion. So they can't take the same route of higher tarifs or boycotting products as they do/did with Chinese products and products from EU. So the question is how much control can the US have on Japan, keeping its many interests in Japan intact, which is unlike the situation with Canadian lumber and the EU tariff war.

The US government cannot force anything on any developed country and especially not Japan.  Instead they can make them look into any company they feel is abusing their market just like Japan could do the same in the US.  Japan government always take request from the US seriously because that is the nature of their government.  They are very dependent on a lot of raw materials and things they cannot produce there.

As to your statement that the US want more monopolies, I am not sure where you get this opinion from

Yes, that is what I am stating about trade, if you are sending more to another country you do not rock the boat and get slapped with Tariffs or anything that can disrupt your supply chain.

MS doesn't rely on Japan no where close to what you believe.  Everything that Japan can produce can be produce in the US.  Probably at a bigger cost but still can be done.  Either way, that is not my point.  My point is that Japan doesn't ignore any request from the US which is why they would look at it seriously.  That doesn't mean anything will come of it, just means if there is any smoke, Sony probably would need to lay low for a while.



Qwark on 30 March 2023
Machiavellian said:
ConservagameR said:

You mean COD sales?

Last I checked, the profits for developing and publishing the game went to ABK, not Sony.

The regulators made it extremely clear that all MS seems to care about are those billions in (COD) profits.

MS also says they will be bringing it to even more platforms.

You know nothing you actually said is correct.  Was it not Sony who made the purchase about COD

Also, MS is bringing COD to more platforms including PS still so not sure what part you are missing.

The real point I wanted to make is your assumption that MS has a stranglehold on FPS but could you tell us which FPS game that MS has that has a stranglehold within the market.  Its not like Sony doesn't have a number of FPS in their stable as well.  

Wolfenstein and Doom come to mind as now exclusive Xbox FPS. Also which popular FPS does Sony have. Killzone was never really popular.

Microsoft also has much more control over Western RPG's now that it owns Diablo, Fallout and Elder Scrolls. Those are three damn big IP's which used to be multiplatform. Sony has most control over Final Fantasy though via deals, containing money (probably) doing marketing for them and co-developing it with SE (at least for FF16), in exchange for at least a year exclusivity and PC probably the only other platform it's allowed to be released on.

For other IP's which Sony doesn't own, we simply don't know enough. Games like Yakuza and Persona are coming to Xbox and Switch. Bloodborne is a Sony IP and for many Japanese games we don't know if Sony is actively holding them back from Xbox. That would need inside knowledge of the contracts between said parties. I doubt MS has those contracts in hand.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar