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Forums - Sony Discussion - PlayStation Nation |OT| Playing Astro Bot on the Horizon Until Dawn

BraLoD said:
TallSilhouette said:

You started moving toward the root of the problem in that second sentence. The problem is a cultural one; not with 'woke' developers or publishers but with a community that was already notoriously immature and misogynist and in recent years is being increasingly pandered to by the right wing to turn them into rabid reactionaries who will swarm on anything that offends them (typically anything that appeals to any group they hate) like bloodthirsty piranhas. It's important that developers don't give in to the hate mobs but we also need to find a way to get better at reaching the disaffected youth or the divide will only continue growing larger.

That said, I don't see Yotei getting anywhere near the hate other games have gotten unless the main character turns out to be LGBT or something. Personally, I hope we get a Blue Eye Samurai outfit. ^^

Sadly everywhere were news about the game are posted I see a very decent share of the posts revolving around the world "woke".

Be it official Sony/Playstation posts on social media or reddit threads, youtube videos and streams, everywhere it already is a decent amount of the "feedback" the game is getting.

Saw some people getting questioned what about the game was supposedly woke or if it was just because the protagonist was a woman, and them those idiots went on to rant about the game being a DLC of the original, or other made up in the spot shit to try to justify them hating on a woman when they get called out.

I even just learned what was DEI and Sweet Baby Inc because those are already mantras being passed on to hate on the game "wokiness", to the point I can guarantee most come from a very few same places where this is being pushed.

Funny enough, Ghost of Tsushima was the game being used to stir hate on TLoU2 on big youtube channels back in the day, sadly channels I got to know because of that. GoT was a kind of counter argument about what a good videogame was used to hate on another Sony exclusive, TLoU2, and now GoY is being hated... just because the protagist is a woman now too.

I watched the recording of Asmongold live reaction of the SoP, and it had a mostly very good reception, aside from Horizon remaster that is, up until they realized GoY protagonist was a woman, than his chat turned into a shitshow. He spent a good few minutes reading all the posts after the SoP livestream finished, and it was overwhelmingly dominated by that. First I think he was making fun of his chat, I still think that to a degree, but the video ends without it being clear, but it was crystal clear the unnanimous hate about a woman being the new main lead in the sequel.

You can check for yourself any kind of comment section on any social media, threads or videos about the game, it's already one of, if not the, major points of "discussion".

@The -pi-guy I hope you can get tagged too, sorry if not.

I think a lot of the 'woke' talk is simply because most were expecting a continuation of Jin's story, and the fact that they went another direction, and chose a woman instead of a man for that new direction, automatically makes those people wonder if it's DEI at play instead of creativity.

Now to add to that fire, AC Shadows was supposed to have a big showing soon and won't be, and apparently has been delayed. That game has got a ton of flak already, some due to what's seen as DEI at play, some due to Ubi saying this game is going to be super accurate yet the fans are finding many flaws, and recent events were just another blow.

So the fact that GoY shows up now, with a woman as the main character, it makes those people feel even stronger that this is due to DEI and not creativity. I've even seen it being compared to TLOU and TLOU2, since those are both SNY studios, where they're pointing out how typical the original was and how woke the sequel was. The assumption being GoT to GoY will be the same thing.

The fact of the matter is SP are going to have to prove themselves with GoY, and if it turns out being what the kids call "based" today, then it will sell great just like GoT did, but if there is a bit of what's perceived to be DEI in the game, beyond the female lead, it's going to get thrashed on release.

I personally am guessing that SP is going to stick closely to the GoT formula and that the only 'woke' type difference would be the female lead character, which will just make it a typical story then, no wokeness. People didn't see Aloy in HZD as woke, because there wasn't anything else in the game to really lead you believe DEI was at play. Assuming the GoY story is good, and they've improved the gameplay and mechanics, it will be just fine.



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BraLoD said:

I watched the recording of Asmongold live reaction of the SoP, and it had a mostly very good reception, aside from Horizon remaster that is, up until they realized GoY protagonist was a woman, than his chat turned into a shitshow. He spent a good few minutes reading all the posts after the SoP livestream finished, and it was overwhelmingly dominated by that. First I think he was making fun of his chat, I still think that to a degree, but the video ends without it being clear, but it was crystal clear the unnanimous hate about a woman being the new main lead in the sequel.

I don't know much about Asmongold.

But based on what I've seen from r/Asmongold, that is the expected response from his audience. They frequently cross post from extremely toxic subreddits. Not representative of the consumer market at large. 

And even there, there is pushback against the negativity.  

https://www.reddit.com/r/Asmongold/comments/1fqduhd/do_you_agree_with_him/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Asmongold/comments/1fqh1im/ghost_of_yotei_has_literally_done_nothing_yet/



epicurean said:

I feel like I'm somewhere in between people calling everything woke, and people yelling at people calling everything woke. (Hopefully that doesnt get me banned here). The above "anti-woke is pro bigotry, anti-antifa is pro-facism" I completely disagree with (at least the 2nd part), but no need to get super political here.

For me personally, there are some games that go to far, and Concord was one of those for me. However, having a female lead is awesome. Having a black/PoC lead is awesome. Mix it up. Make it historically accurate. Whatever, its all good. I'm not vocal about it (this is probably as vocal as I've gotten about it), but I wont buy games that push values I don't think are healthy, or are adamantly against my religious beliefs (which is a whole separate thing, not related to the woke stuff). Everyone has their own personal limits for stuff. My guess is some people wouldnt buy a super Christian game (if a good one ever got made) that pushed mainline Christian values.

Being opposed to someone who is opposed to fascism is just being pro-fascist. I get you don't feel that way, because you think of antifa as some kind of organization that you think has done bad things, but that's not what antifa means. 

What exactly about Concord "went too far"?

EricHiggin said:

I think a lot of the 'woke' talk is simply because most were expecting a continuation of Jin's story, and the fact that they went another direction, and chose a woman instead of a man for that new direction, automatically makes those people wonder if it's DEI at play instead of creativity

A big reason for "DEI", whatever that means, is to push for more creativity. Telling more kinds of stories, making more kinds of characters, instead of treading the same few that always get told. They're not at odds.



the-pi-guy said:
EricHiggin said:

I think a lot of the 'woke' talk is simply because most were expecting a continuation of Jin's story, and the fact that they went another direction, and chose a woman instead of a man for that new direction, automatically makes those people wonder if it's DEI at play instead of creativity

A big reason for "DEI", whatever that means, is to push for more creativity. Telling more kinds of stories, making more kinds of characters, instead of treading the same few that always get told. They're not at odds.

"Whatever that means", followed by an explanation of the goal?...  How can you understand the goal if you don't know what it means?

Accuracy and creativity can severely clash at times. Heavily suggesting DEI be implemented when accuracy is the goal could obviously be a problem.

Those who are totally against DEI anywhere at all, and those who are totally for it everywhere always, are being ridiculous.



EricHiggin said:

"Whatever that means", followed by an explanation of the goal?...  How can you know the goal if you don't know what it means?

I'm poking fun at how these words are constantly used way beyond what they actually mean. 

Like how "woke" seems to just mean "anything that bugs me", even though the definition of the word is pretty much just "aware/informed".

EricHiggin said:

Accuracy and creativity can severely clash at times. Heavily suggesting DEI be implemented when accuracy is the goal could obviously be a problem.

Sure that could be a problem.

But the goal is almost never accuracy. Even when games try to be based with accurate history, there are pretty much always liberties that are going to be taken. 

Sometimes that's done for story reasons, or pacing reasons, or because it's fun. Movies, TV shows, fictional books are meant to be entertainment, they're not meant to inform. There has never been an actual standard that they should be accurate. 

The first Ghost of Tsushima isn't historically accurate. There are no characters based on real ones. 

The Order has an electric gun, and werewolves. 

The Oppenheimer movie makes up conversations to play up to the audience.

Most things fail pretty hard at accuracy. Yet most things don't have people complaining about them.

A lot of actually accurate things get criticized, because it doesn't fit in with what people expect. And a lot of actually inaccurate things get overlooked, for reasons.

Even Ghost of Tsushima had a woman helping out the main character as a fighter. Why wasn't it a problem before?

EricHiggin said:

Those who are totally against DEI anywhere at all, and those who are totally for it everywhere always, are being ridiculous.

And who is pushing for it to be "everywhere always"?



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the-pi-guy said:
epicurean said:

I feel like I'm somewhere in between people calling everything woke, and people yelling at people calling everything woke. (Hopefully that doesnt get me banned here). The above "anti-woke is pro bigotry, anti-antifa is pro-facism" I completely disagree with (at least the 2nd part), but no need to get super political here.

For me personally, there are some games that go to far, and Concord was one of those for me. However, having a female lead is awesome. Having a black/PoC lead is awesome. Mix it up. Make it historically accurate. Whatever, its all good. I'm not vocal about it (this is probably as vocal as I've gotten about it), but I wont buy games that push values I don't think are healthy, or are adamantly against my religious beliefs (which is a whole separate thing, not related to the woke stuff). Everyone has their own personal limits for stuff. My guess is some people wouldnt buy a super Christian game (if a good one ever got made) that pushed mainline Christian values.

Being opposed to someone who is opposed to fascism is just being pro-fascist. I get you don't feel that way, because you think of antifa as some kind of organization that you think has done bad things, but that's not what antifa means. 

What exactly about Concord "went too far"?

EricHiggin said:

I think a lot of the 'woke' talk is simply because most were expecting a continuation of Jin's story, and the fact that they went another direction, and chose a woman instead of a man for that new direction, automatically makes those people wonder if it's DEI at play instead of creativity

A big reason for "DEI", whatever that means, is to push for more creativity. Telling more kinds of stories, making more kinds of characters, instead of treading the same few that always get told. They're not at odds.

If you're talking about being anti-fascists, yes, I am anti-fascists. However, the antifa movement, to me, seemed way more "pro violence against things we dont agree with, that weren't even fasicists", than it seemed "anti-fascists." In fact, they seemed to be more fascists to me than many of the groups they protested against. But yes, I am anti-fascist.

Concord - The lead designer who made a lot of comments was a big put off. Pushing a pro-trans agenda to a game that will go out to kids is also something I disagree with. I know its a hot button issue and many here will not agree with me. But I believe it puts kids on a bad path where suicide rates are through the roof. (The reasons for such can be debated). I sympathize greatly with kids on that path, and believe they need help, but not the kind the kind they are getting. From what I've seen many countries in Europe are starting to come around to this way of thinking as well. 



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

epicurean said:

Concord - The lead designer who made a lot of comments was a big put off. Pushing a pro-trans agenda to a game that will go out to kids is also something I disagree with. I know its a hot button issue and many here will not agree with me. But I believe it puts kids on a bad path where suicide rates are through the roof. (The reasons for such can be debated). I sympathize greatly with kids on that path, and believe they need help, but not the kind the kind they are getting. From what I've seen many countries in Europe are starting to come around to this way of thinking as well. 

What exactly about Concord was "pushing a pro-trans agenda"? 



So anyway about PlayStation....



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

the-pi-guy said:
epicurean said:

Concord - The lead designer who made a lot of comments was a big put off. Pushing a pro-trans agenda to a game that will go out to kids is also something I disagree with. I know its a hot button issue and many here will not agree with me. But I believe it puts kids on a bad path where suicide rates are through the roof. (The reasons for such can be debated). I sympathize greatly with kids on that path, and believe they need help, but not the kind the kind they are getting. From what I've seen many countries in Europe are starting to come around to this way of thinking as well. 

What exactly about Concord was "pushing a pro-trans agenda"? 

One character WAS trans, others had they/them pronouns, others "undecided". 



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

epicurean said:
the-pi-guy said:

What exactly about Concord was "pushing a pro-trans agenda"? 

One character WAS trans, others had they/them pronouns, others "undecided". 

So?



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!