DonFerrari said:
coolbeans said:
Jesus... this is partly why I dislike responding to you: this drive to filibuster the conversation down avenues that aren't really relevant. They may not be "wrong" per se, but it's dumping more things before the previous shit has been resolved. I keep getting roped back into a convo I didn't anticipate investing this much time in lol. First, let me break down this whole "hostility" angle.
I think a core issue that'll come up regarding "aggression" with you is that English is your 2nd language, so just bear with me. To be clear, I initially emphasized you being "way too lenient" and pushed the emphasis more after Runa was acting obnoxious. But even then, I believe you're taking "insanely lenient" too personally b/c, in context, it's about you defending something/someone past a reasonable extent you would elsewhere. Just b/c I use "insanely" doesn't mean I think you're nuts by default. Do you follow? And let the record reflect that I've yet to say anyone's "lied" like you've put it; in fact, I've disregarded saying that part out loud just so I can emphasize what feels like the bigger issue. I'm not going to pretend I've been dainty & cordial, especially when I flat-out don't buy these counter-arguments, but there's a huge gap between my attitude and the broader fanboy example Runa brought up. Any third-party can validate that. Anyways...
Bro, you're literally diving into technical jargon that still doesn't get rid of Insomniac's first disproven claim. As I've echoed before, when you look at Marcus Smith's quote ("Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilizes dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5.") there is no possible way you can say the goalposts haven't shifted. As I said before, even Insomniac's own Mike Daly has conceded a game like Rift Apart could be done on PS4 w/ limitations. Here's an article that adequately reflects and expands on my general sentiments to get the point across; it's critical while also not indulging in mouth-frothing rage against Sony/Insomniac.
Again, whether you want to say it is/isn't a "lie," the moral of the story should be this if you're a developer: show excitement for your next game without leaning into console-wars hyperbole. I don't think anyone disagrees with that specific point and I think that's the most important takeaway.
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Yes English is my second language, but I didn't take "insanely lenient" to mean I'm insane, but that I was going extreme on leniency. Which wasn't the case, it was more like you were going that route yourself to put a fault. Taking one comment to mean something else. As you yourself would admit they didn't lie "per see", so you would say they lied because? Yes, because you took it out of the context of it wasn't possible on PS4 to mean it wasn't possible in any other machine any other way than PS5 which was never meant or intended, because at the time you could already have a gigantic RAM to take care of the HDD issue or now you can compensate the HDD with more ram (but not obscene amount), better GPU/CPU and direct storage. None of those would work for PS4. And even when doing the compensate HDD unless you go to extremes you won't get the rift mechanic working right.
Yes I wouldn't put you as fanboy or as aggressive as people claiming it was a flat out lie (but yes you are veering on Insomniac mislead, but going to taking the phrase out of context).
It only becomes hyperbolic when it is dragged out of the context of comparing it to PS4 platform.
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Oh ok. So then you see where I'm coming from as far as attitude, right? Because for me, I feel like I've been trying to be conversational while still being totally against a point. It's the whole "respectfully, I just think you're spouting bullshit" type of approach. This is why I still think your generosity isn't warranted. Here's why (hopefully for the last time)...
So, I went ahead and re-re-watched the original video and I still feel absolutely justified in judging how Marcus Smith frames the argument around the almighty SSD. Again, that quote snippet I've been using ("would not have been possible without PS5's SSD") within the broader context is explaining why they left PS4 behind, but the lengths gone in emphasizing the new-fangled tech is suspicious marketing at best. Some of his phrasing sounds like it could've been Xeroxed from a PS-centric YouTube channel. It's also kinda weird b/c the way he subtly frames things it's as though he believes Rift Apart introduced swapping between places. I mean... I still remember the original Prey (2005/2006) using a similar trick to go from one place to another. Like, there have been games making certain compromises that are similar in its world-jumping application, just not near the image quality and complexity.
To stop beating around the bush, I only see two possible interpretations for that video: Smith was either lying or incidentally caught up in "Secret Sauce!!1" fanboy lingo that was blended in with typical advertising. I think it's the latter which means that, at best, Smith was willfully indulging in language and framing akin to corporate marketing. While I'm not as harsh, Insomniac shouldn't be surprised they're getting shit slung their way given its stable performance without the very thing they advertised was impossible to play without. Before releasing on PC, that secret sauce advertising was previously called out by OG coding guru Jon Burton (even calling it a lie) and also clarified by Insomniac's own Mike Daly after the game had released. I believe we all know why Daly conveniently admitted this post-release. The game was out in the wild, the advertising cycle was over, the reviews were in, etc. etc. The thing is I don't really mind that b/c Daly gave a grounded & professional outlook you'd want: emphasizing the technical burdens made easier through PS5 hardware without giving red meat to fanboys.
Are some people losing their minds over this? For sure. That doesn't mean the defensive side (like your first comment) gets to pretend as though the goalposts haven't moved. Any rationale I've seen, such as "look at that loading delay" (discounting the worst examples like the PS4 HDD clip) either relies on special pleading or sweeping claims about the necessary tech that don't hold up to closer scrutiny.
As I've brought up before:
-developers & shady/deceptive corporate-speak
-church & state
-cereal & orange juice
Some things are better left separated.
Last edited by coolbeans - on 29 July 2023
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