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Obama had a quick speech made about tge coming unraveling of American democracy. He may be referring to election interference or something like that, but the article mentions few if any specifics on what that actually means. Anyway, here is a link for those who are interested

https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/18/politics/obama-trump-resistance-analysis



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sundin13 said:

I don't know man.

Of course population size isn't irrelevant, but I don't really think it makes sense to expect a senator to be the one doing the math to make these estimations. The side of the cost benefit analysis that they should predominantly be concerned with imo should be the outputs, not the inputs. 

Similar to the questions regarding the Bible that I discussed earlier, I kind of understand what he was going for, but it was just done so poorly, it felt kind of stupid.

Do I think that Ted Cruz has done a good analysis on whether or not we should go to war? Of course not, but I think that could be communicated so much more effectively than some chud doing trivia at him. 

I feel like we've lowered the bar way too much if that is passing as a good interview. 

For the record, the Gary Johnson clip played out roughly as follows:

Interviewer: What would you do if you were elected, about Aleppo.

Johnson: And what is Aleppo?

I think the difference between the two gaffes should be clear. 

If it were just a randomly selected senator sure, I wouldn't expect them to know this detail off the top of their head. But we're not talking about just a random senator. Just like I wouldn't expect Cruz to know the rough population of Lesotho off the top of his head. We are talking about a senator who is actively campaigning to go to war with the country in question. I'd expect that senator to know basic things about said country, like its rough population size and which ethnic groups exist in it. 

Honestly, I feel like not expecting senators to know things in general is what is lowering the bar. It's in fact why we are in the crises we are in currently. Congress, due to its low standards, has been inactive and weak as a branch for decades now. 

I actually think Johnson's gaffe is less bad, because action (or in-action more likely, given his views) on Syria weren't a primary policy of his. He was mostly focused on domestic policies, with just a generic non-interventionist approach for foreign policy. Cruz, on the other-hand, is doing a media circuit explicitly advocating for war with the country being inquired about. He should know that said country has a population nearing 100 million, even if he doesn't know the specific number. It's directly relevant to the question of whether or not the United States should enter a war with Iran. 



sundin13 said:

Like, it really doesn't matter what the population of Iran is,

I agree with your overall post, but this part absolutely does matter. A war with Iran is going to be much bloodier than a war with Iraq, which was one fourth the population of Iran. The U.S. has not gone up against an adversary of Iran’s size since World War II. The bigger the population involved, the bigger the casualties for both sides.





sc94597 said:
sundin13 said:

I don't know man.

Of course population size isn't irrelevant, but I don't really think it makes sense to expect a senator to be the one doing the math to make these estimations. The side of the cost benefit analysis that they should predominantly be concerned with imo should be the outputs, not the inputs. 

Similar to the questions regarding the Bible that I discussed earlier, I kind of understand what he was going for, but it was just done so poorly, it felt kind of stupid.

Do I think that Ted Cruz has done a good analysis on whether or not we should go to war? Of course not, but I think that could be communicated so much more effectively than some chud doing trivia at him. 

I feel like we've lowered the bar way too much if that is passing as a good interview. 

For the record, the Gary Johnson clip played out roughly as follows:

Interviewer: What would you do if you were elected, about Aleppo.

Johnson: And what is Aleppo?

I think the difference between the two gaffes should be clear. 

If it were just a randomly selected senator sure, I wouldn't expect them to know this detail off the top of their head. But we're not talking about just a random senator. Just like I wouldn't expect Cruz to know the rough population of Lesotho off the top of his head. We are talking about a senator who is actively campaigning to go to war with the country in question. I'd expect that senator to know basic things about said country, like its rough population size and which ethnic groups exist in it. 

Honestly, I feel like not expecting senators to know things in general is what is lowering the bar. It's in fact why we are in the crises we are in currently. Congress, due to its low standards, has been inactive and weak as a branch for decades now. 

I actually think Johnson's gaffe is less bad, because action (or in-action more likely, given his views) on Syria weren't a primary policy of his. He was mostly focused on domestic policies, with just a generic non-interventionist approach for foreign policy. Cruz, on the other-hand, is doing a media circuit explicitly advocating for war with the country being inquired about. He should know that said country has a population nearing 100 million, even if he doesn't know the specific number. It's directly relevant to the question of whether or not the United States should enter a war with Iran. 

I think the reason why Johnson's gaffe was particularly bad was because, by my recollection, people were widely concerned about his ability to handle foreign policy without much experience in the area. It was seen as a weak point for him when pursuing the presidency, so when he didn't know what Aleppo was, he reinforced those doubts. As a longshot candidate, that was a heavy blow.

On Cruz, I think you may be right on the intention of the "What is the population of Iran" question, but I still think it was a bad question. Maybe if Tucker explained any of what you said, it might have been a bit better, but the way it was asked and the way it was followed up, it reads like a gotcha about trivia and I can't get past that.

SanAndreasX said:
sundin13 said:

Like, it really doesn't matter what the population of Iran is,

I agree with your overall post, but this part absolutely does matter. A war with Iran is going to be much bloodier than a war with Iraq, which was one fourth the population of Iran. The U.S. has not gone up against an adversary of Iran’s size since World War II. The bigger the population involved, the bigger the casualties for both sides.

Maybe, maybe not.

I don't think anyone is really expecting or advocating for a war that looks like Iraq. The question at hand from what I can see is "should we launch missiles at Iran". Even Ted hasn't been advocating for boots on the ground.

So, what would that look like? I don't really know, but I think the factors which are primarily relevant to that question aren't "how big is the population" is it more, "what is Iran's capability to launch missile attacks at the US or areas of US interest". 



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sundin13 said:
SanAndreasX said:

I agree with your overall post, but this part absolutely does matter. A war with Iran is going to be much bloodier than a war with Iraq, which was one fourth the population of Iran. The U.S. has not gone up against an adversary of Iran’s size since World War II. The bigger the population involved, the bigger the casualties for both sides.

Maybe, maybe not.

I don't think anyone is really expecting or advocating for a war that looks like Iraq. The question at hand from what I can see is "should we launch missiles at Iran". Even Ted hasn't been advocating for boots on the ground.

So, what would that look like? I don't really know, but I think the factors which are primarily relevant to that question aren't "how big is the population" is it more, "what is Iran's capability to launch missile attacks at the US or areas of US interest". 

The US already has 40 to 50 thousand boots on the ground in the ME...

Iran-backed Shiite militia in Iraq vows to attack US regional bases if Trump decides to enter conflict

An Iran-backed powerful Shiite militia in Iraq vowed on Thursday to attack US military bases in the Middle East if the Trump administration enters the Israel-Iran conflict.

“We reaffirm, with even greater clarity, that should the United States enter into this war, the deranged (US President Donald) Trump shall forfeit all the trillions he dreams of seizing from this region. Operational plans have been established for that purpose,” Abu Ali al-Askari, the security leader of Kataib Hezbollah, said in a statement today.

“Undoubtedly, American bases throughout the region will become akin to duck-hunting grounds,” the statement added.

Al-Askari also threatened to shut down the Strait of Hormuz between the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman, as well as the narrow Bab-el-Mandeb waterway leading into the Red Sea from the south. He went on to say that “oil ports along the Red Sea will cease operation — not to mention the unforeseen surprises that may await its aircraft in the skies.”



And this is where Iran can reach (as far is known)



So no, a hit and run missile strike will not be 'safe' for the US, both economically and putting 40,000+ troops in danger.



SvennoJ said:
sundin13 said:

Maybe, maybe not.

I don't think anyone is really expecting or advocating for a war that looks like Iraq. The question at hand from what I can see is "should we launch missiles at Iran". Even Ted hasn't been advocating for boots on the ground.

So, what would that look like? I don't really know, but I think the factors which are primarily relevant to that question aren't "how big is the population" is it more, "what is Iran's capability to launch missile attacks at the US or areas of US interest". 

The US already has 40 to 50 thousand boots on the ground in the ME...

A) Sorry if my language wasn't clear. By boots on the ground, I meant "In active combat in a warzone". 

B) Also to be clear, I never said that missile strikes would be safe for anyone. I am saying that is the primarily relevant question.

To summarize my point: Any celebration of that dogtrash Tucker/Ted interview beyond "Lol, the right is eating itself" is likely giving Tucker far too much credit. 



sundin13 said:

A) Sorry if my language wasn't clear. By boots on the ground, I meant "In active combat in a warzone". 

B) Also to be clear, I never said that missile strikes would be safe for anyone. I am saying that is the primarily relevant question.

To summarize my point: Any celebration of that dogtrash Tucker/Ted interview beyond "Lol, the right is eating itself" is likely giving Tucker far too much credit. 

Say what you will about Tucker or Ted, and I have issues with both, but when the leftwing alternative is the screechfest we just saw on The View this week (complete with Whoopie's soft-padding of Iranian treatment of women), I'll take a gentlemanly attempt to persuade between a senator who is all hat but no cattle and a news host with some questionable friends any day of the week.

This is why the left is not winning anyone outside of their bubble:




thehunter said:
sundin13 said:

A) Sorry if my language wasn't clear. By boots on the ground, I meant "In active combat in a warzone". 

B) Also to be clear, I never said that missile strikes would be safe for anyone. I am saying that is the primarily relevant question.

To summarize my point: Any celebration of that dogtrash Tucker/Ted interview beyond "Lol, the right is eating itself" is likely giving Tucker far too much credit. 

Say what you will about Tucker or Ted, and I have issues with both, but when the leftwing alternative is the screechfest we just saw on The View this week (complete with Whoopie's soft-padding of Iranian treatment of women), I'll take a gentlemanly attempt to persuade between a senator who is all hat but no cattle and a news host with some questionable friends any day of the week.

This is why the left is not winning anyone outside of their bubble:

I feel like this is a big part of the problem with discourse today. It doesn't matter whether something is good or right, it only matters whether there is something worse that you can point at to make yourself feel good. 

The View sucks. I have never met anyone on the left who likes The View or anyone on the left who considers The View to be leftist. If you are justifying hating the left by watching The View, there is something seriously wrong with your worldview. 



No one is celebrating Tucker though, most haven't even watched the thing.

Tucker may have asked some gotcha questions (the population of Iran is certainly not one of them) but it's not like Ted Cruz deserved a better set of questions, he fumbled throughout, even when asked legitimate questions and given the space to express his views, his answers were fucking dumb. Even from a christianity point of view he makes no sense, the guy thinks his religious duty is to stand up for a political entity that's carpet bombing children to ashes, he didn't deserve a fair chance, even though I think he got one.

I am personally celebrating the fact that AIPAC, an organisation lobbying for the betterment of Israelis over Americans, is finally being scrutinised publicly on the most famous platforms out there. Not long ago, whenever I had to bring AIPAC up, I had to educate people about its existence first, often met with objections and accusation of conspiratorial thinking. It's great that Americans are waking up to the dangers they pose, left or right, it's great to see. The discourse around Israel has finally changed, I never thought I'd live to see this day, it doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things but one step forward at least. 

EDIT

just rewatched the clip

  • Tucker: how many people live in Iran?
  • Ted: I don't know the population 
  • Tucker: at all?
  • Ted: no, I don't know the population 

Come on, it's not like he was cut off or anything, utterly clueless! 

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 20 June 2025