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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Official Mod Notice regarding Hogwart's Legacy discussion & rules regarding transphobia.

Chrkeller said:

Wanting fair and equal playing field for our kids' safety isn't anti trans.  This is a great example of what I was talking about via assimilation.  Anybody who doesn't see things 100% aligned with pre-assigned talking points is branded as anti.   Most topics have multiple fair positions.  And that is all I'm going to say on the topic.  

There are generally transitional requirements for trans athletes to ensure they are fair. For example hormone treatment for a prolonged period of time to ensure that trans women lose their muscle advantage. 

>Most topics have multiple fair positions

There are plenty of things that seem fair, that really aren't. Especially for topics where people don't look at the full picture. 

>This is a great example of what I was talking about via assimilation.

You could very well argue that both sides are pushing for assimilation. If we are collectively making decisions about who can participate and there are disagreements about how can participate. Then someone is going to end up having to make a compromise. 

Chrkeller said:

Quick side note:

Home schooling rates continue to increase....  there isn't a single reason for this, however people should start being concerned at the number of people who want nothing to do with public education.

Let's see:

- school shootings are pretty good motivator for pulling your kids out of school

- your kid being bullied for being trans is a pretty good motivator for pulling your kid out of school

- misinformation about public education is a good motivator for pulling your kid out of school

Lot's of possible reasons, some of them are overreactions, some are them are just wrong, etc

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 18 February 2023

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"If you don't agree you are wrong" mentality sounds like assimilation.  Lol.  

Too each their own.  Home school was flatly the best decision I made for my kids.  They are literally years ahead on math and science.



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Here's my rant on the subject and please be mindful that I'm not a native english speaker.

I believe that this conversation is being dragged on because the mod team has failed to understand or acknowledge the core of what is the concern raised by the majority of the posts in this thread.

We understand that any insult of any subject or any matter against anyone will be tolerated and will follow with proper reactions in terms of warnings or bans.

This is good, it's a public forum and conversation has to stay civilized. Everybody or almost everybody will agree with that and it's seems that's the consensus in that thread. If the OP was mainly pushing that, everyone would have probably agreed.

But you also have to realized that you have taken a stance as a TEAM on that specific subjet in that controversy over Hogwart's Legacy call's to boycott. You have presented the fact that the JK Rowling is transphobic and you're standing behind that fact. It's your right, it's your prerogative, and nobody can ask tell you what you should think or not on the subject. If you want to take a stance, you're free to do so.

But here's the is issue with the OP: the tone used.

It's. Passive. Agressive. Period.

This is the core of the problem, using this kind of wording you're telling users that might be neutral on the subject that you migt have a bias in the matter and that raise a flag : if I comment on the subject, will I risk offense someone unwillingly, be flagged as transphobic and be banned ?

If I believe that the original comment of Rowling isn't transphobic and just raise a concern about how agressivily pushing trans rights can risk erasing the female identity from the conversation and cause a step back on woman's rights, would I be flagged as transphobic ? Even if I support trans rights and I even have a really close relationship with a transwoman ? Wouldn't be ironic in a sens ?

But that's the social climate we have right now. Any -ism or -phobic words are more and more commonly used to shut down a conversation or discredite a person's point of view, thus they're losing their meaning. Even suggesting something isn't transphobic can be seen as transphobic. There's less and less place for debate.

So of course people in this forum are raising concerns because of the way your stance is presentend in the OP. It raises concerns about the risk of being banned for talking about something, not because someone is being directly insulted, but because someone might be offended even by a neutral comment. And we have to count on the MODs to be impartial when they serves judgment.

So in my honest opinion, you have the right to take a stance on a difficult subjet and it's very noble to do so. But please, look at the wording and the tone you're using in doing that kind of statement. It has to be neutral in it's presentation and I'm pretty confident it's the core of the issue alot of users in that thread have.



To add what the user above said. The main problem is how passive-aggressive the OP came out. The whole idea was to not spread hate, but OP himself was very hateful towards J.K Rowling. OP pretty much said "if you don't agree that J.K Rowling is an HORRIBLE person you are wrong". Wait a moment, I don't agree with some of the things J.K said, but in no moment I thought she was evil. Just because some people here may not crucify J.K Rowling it doesn't mean they are transphobic. I feel this is important to be said as well.



I'm sorry, but This position is bogus. There is a very wide gap between being actually transphobic or doubting whether J.K. Rowling is transphopbic or transcritical. You're forcing a position on people who don't agree with the take that J.K. Rowling is actually transphobic, but who are not transphobic themselves. Insinuating they're bigots by association, which is what the post does, is essentially flaming a whole bunch of people all at once. This is exactly why a lot of people are very critical of the boycot (myself included), because for some people, it comes from a position of absolute hypocrisy and does nothing to actually advance trans rights.

If people want to boycott the game because they take issue with Rowling's takes, that is totally fine.
If people want to buy the game, that's fine too.
If people disagree with people labeling Rowling as a transphobe, that should be fine too.
If VGChartz decides they don't want that kind of discussion on their forum, guess what, totally fine too. But don't go picking a side and narrative and forcing it on everyone.
That might not have been the intention, but that's totally what the post implies and it's not fine.



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Chrkeller said:

"If you don't agree you are wrong" mentality sounds like assimilation.  Lol.  

Too each their own.  Home school was flatly the best decision I made for my kids.  They are literally years ahead on math and science.

I wasn't disagreeing with "assimilation". 

My point was that everyone wants assimilation. Forcing schools to not allow transgender people in sports is also forceful, as is forcing schools to allow transgender people in sports. Both of them require someone to make a compromise. It's not a matter of one of them requires assimilation and the other doesn't. They both are, by that standard. 

Secondly, some things are facts. It's a fact that the Earth is is not flat. 

I was years ahead on math and science too, and have a degree in those things. 

abronn627 said:

Here's my rant on the subject and please be mindful that I'm not a native english speaker.

I believe that this conversation is being dragged on because the mod team has failed to understand or acknowledge the core of what is the concern raised by the majority of the posts in this thread.

We understand that any insult of any subject or any matter against anyone will be tolerated and will follow with proper reactions in terms of warnings or bans.

This is good, it's a public forum and conversation has to stay civilized. Everybody or almost everybody will agree with that and it's seems that's the consensus in that thread. If the OP was mainly pushing that, everyone would have probably agreed.

But you also have to realized that you have taken a stance as a TEAM on that specific subjet in that controversy over Hogwart's Legacy call's to boycott. You have presented the fact that the JK Rowling is transphobic and you're standing behind that fact. It's your right, it's your prerogative, and nobody can ask tell you what you should think or not on the subject. If you want to take a stance, you're free to do so.

But here's the is issue with the OP: the tone used.

It's. Passive. Agressive. Period.

This is the core of the problem, using this kind of wording you're telling users that might be neutral on the subject that you migt have a bias in the matter and that raise a flag : if I comment on the subject, will I risk offense someone unwillingly, be flagged as transphobic and be banned ?

If I believe that the original comment of Rowling isn't transphobic and just raise a concern about how agressivily pushing trans rights can risk erasing the female identity from the conversation and cause a step back on woman's rights, would I be flagged as transphobic ? Even if I support trans rights and I even have a really close relationship with a transwoman ? Wouldn't be ironic in a sens ?

But that's the social climate we have right now. Any -ism or -phobic words are more and more commonly used to shut down a conversation or discredite a person's point of view, thus they're losing their meaning. Even suggesting something isn't transphobic can be seen as transphobic. There's less and less place for debate.

So of course people in this forum are raising concerns because of the way your stance is presentend in the OP. It raises concerns about the risk of being banned for talking about something, not because someone is being directly insulted, but because someone might be offended even by a neutral comment. And we have to count on the MODs to be impartial when they serves judgment.

So in my honest opinion, you have the right to take a stance on a difficult subjet and it's very noble to do so. But please, look at the wording and the tone you're using in doing that kind of statement. It has to be neutral in it's presentation and I'm pretty confident it's the core of the issue alot of users in that thread have.

Sure it's passive aggressive. 

It's a very personal subject for some of the mod team. And for everyone else it's been a frustrating time reading some posts attacking others. It's very frustrating watching people continuously interject with comments that are not based on facts, and are based off misunderstandings, if not outright misinformation. It's especially frustrating when those misunderstandings are actually hurting others. 

This is a complex and sensitive discussion, and sure things could be worded better.  

But that's also true for almost everyone responding to this thread. 

youngbr said:

To add what the user above said. The main problem is how passive-aggressive the OP came out. The whole idea was to not spread hate, but OP himself was very hateful towards J.K Rowling. OP pretty much said "if you don't agree that J.K Rowling is an HORRIBLE person you are wrong". Wait a moment, I don't agree with some of the things J.K said, but in no moment I thought she was evil. Just because some people here may not crucify J.K Rowling it doesn't mean they are transphobic. I feel this is important to be said as well.

It's not like some random incident, one off post. 

She has written blog posts and written tweets espousing anti-trans views. 

She is anti-trans. Some people have chosen to not buy Hogwarts Legacy because they don't want to support her transphobia. That should be fine. 

But we don't tolerate bullying people, and for some reason or another people here taken it upon themselves to attack others for their Hogwarts Legacy boycott. 

WolfpackN64 said:

I'm sorry, but This position is bogus. There is a very wide gap between being actually transphobic or doubting whether J.K. Rowling is transphopbic or transcritical. You're forcing a position on people who don't agree with the take that J.K. Rowling is actually transphobic, but who are not transphobic themselves. Insinuating they're bigots by association, which is what the post does, is essentially flaming a whole bunch of people all at once. This is exactly why a lot of people are very critical of the boycot (myself included), because for some people, it comes from a position of absolute hypocrisy and does nothing to actually advance trans rights.

She's been pretty open about being transphobic. 

I've said this before, it's not about the game. It's about the belittling people who are trans or people are wanting to boycott. We don't tolerate bullying, for anyone else. We aren't going to tolerate bullying here either. 



the-pi-guy said:

We're not talking about "mean words" that should just get brushed off. We're talking about kids getting bullied. We're talking about people getting murdered for existing their way. We're talking about politicians putting an enormous amount of resources into ensuring that those people can't exist. 

I... don't feel like this is the whole truth. Yes, there is a lot of bullying. Yes, it should be fought against. But take for example the stance that trans women are not real women. Is it bullying? What do you consider bullying? My intuition says that no, it's not bullying unless the intent was to bully, but I can see things getting fuzzier if you don't intend to bully but you realize it greatly hurts the other party's feelings.

Does it threaten the existence of trans people in any way? No, not really. Is it an uncomfortable stance for trans people? Certainly seems that way, which is probably why this is such a tricky subject: Even things that are not meant to be threatening or possibly even bullying can feel really hurtful to trans people.

My point? Not about this particular stance, that's for sure. That's just one example attributed to J. K. Rowling I picked from this thread. My point is that perhaps some people feel like the limits for what's OK are put too far, and even questioning whether that's a suitable place for the limits means you get labeled as transphobic.

Personally I'm all for trans rights and don't mind the actual developments that are happening, but I feel like it's really, really difficult to actually discuss anything about the matter unless you're 100 % on the trans side. I don't feel like healthy discussion about trans rights is really possible at the moment. For example, I've tried to phrase this as nicely and sensitively as I can, but I already think there's a relatively high chance someone's going to respond somewhat aggressively and more or less try to label me as transphobic.

And like I said before, I don't even find any real problem with the moderation policy presented here, since it sounds like it's basically "don't be a dick". This is more about the discussion culture around the topic in general, here and especially elsewhere.

Last edited by Zkuq - on 18 February 2023

WolfpackN64 said:

I'm sorry, but This position is bogus. There is a very wide gap between being actually transphobic or doubting whether J.K. Rowling is transphopbic or transcritical. You're forcing a position on people who don't agree with the take that J.K. Rowling is actually transphobic, but who are not transphobic themselves. Insinuating they're bigots by association, which is what the post does, is essentially flaming a whole bunch of people all at once. This is exactly why a lot of people are very critical of the boycot (myself included), because for some people, it comes from a position of absolute hypocrisy and does nothing to actually advance trans rights.

If people want to boycott the game because they take issue with Rowling's takes, that is totally fine.
If people want to buy the game, that's fine too.
If people disagree with people labeling Rowling as a transphobe, that should be fine too.
If VGChartz decides they don't want that kind of discussion on their forum, guess what, totally fine too. But don't go picking a side and narrative and forcing it on everyone.
That might not have been the intention, but that's totally what the post implies and it's not fine.

Very well said. I think the mod team has seriously misread the situation in terms of the people that use this site and the variety of view points.



Zippy6 said:
Shadow1980 said:

As was explained, people are boycotting this game over Rowling's transphobia. It is specifically the dismissal toward or insulting of concerns over her bigotry that will bannable.

So we can express the opinion that she is transphobic or a biggot but are not allowed to express an opinion counter to that.

We also would allow the opinion of "women are people", and we also don't allow the counter opinion of "women are not people". 

Rowling has a history of tweeting out support for transphobic organizations and people, writing transphobic articles and characters in her books. She's even tweeted out "TERF wars", someone who claims to be a feminist and is anti-trans. 

But again, I would say the crux of the matter is not even about JK Rowling, but about the insults that have been thrown around at people who have chosen to boycott the products she's associated with, because they don't want to contribute to her transphobic tweets. 

To the best of my knowledge, we haven't banned or even officially warned anyone for espousing transphobic beliefs in any of the Hogwarts Legacy threads or this one.

We are trying to have an informative dialogue because transgenderism seems to be a topic that most people don't understand and many people continue have strong opinions anyway. 



the-pi-guy said:
Zippy6 said:

So we can express the opinion that she is transphobic or a biggot but are not allowed to express an opinion counter to that.

We also would allow the opinion of "women are people", and we also don't allow the counter opinion of "women are not people".

Terrible take. That's like saying "we won't allow the opinion that X is morally ok because we also wouldn't allow the opinion that an orange is blue."

Morals are not universal, a woman being a human being is.